Re: Win2K/NTFS messes file creation time/date

From: Ken Brown (k.brownat_private)
Date: Tue Jul 17 2001 - 03:11:18 PDT

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    "Michael C. Bazarewsky" wrote:
    > 
    > > Known to who? Is it documented anywhere?
    > 
    > MS KB Q172190 discusses this behavior, NTFS Tunneling.  It's covered in
    > the Microsoft Official Curriculum course # 922, as well.  (I know the MOC is
    > not the most widely looked-at reference, but the KB is fair game.)
    
    Thanks & to the other half-dozen who pointed this out.  I must be being
    particularly thick this week. Or perhaps MS are just choosing obscure
    keywords.  I searched KB, both online and from a technet CD, but
    obviously I didn't choose
    the approved jargon. "Tunnelling" is a long way from any keywords that
    I'd associate with file systems - and a search for "tunnelling and ntfs"
    turns up a great many references to VPNs and bits of networking. It now
    turns out that it isn't really a property of the file system at all,
    which obviously makes the search even harder.
    
    If it is a bug at all it is perhaps a bug in documentation. I have used
    NT for years, and I've never come across this idea as far as I can
    remember. Presumably my fault for not paying attention. 
    
    Obviously not serious, but I bet that someone, somewhere, has an
    application that depends on file creation dates and wonders why it goes
    wrong every now and again.  That is a *mild* potential security problem,
    if only because it could cause confusion. Documentation bugs can be
    security problems. Unexpected or unwanted behaviour from a machine is
    always a potential security problem.  
    
    The accumulation of  seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time
    backwards-compatible  gotchas in the Windows file systems - unkillable
    system program names, old DOS device files in every directory, files
    that don't show up in Explorer whichever buttons you press, files that
    look like one type of executable but execute like another (just to
    mention some that have come up on Bugtraq in the past few weeks), the
    old chestnut of "invisible" multiple data streams (which still catches
    people out 5 years after it first got notorious) - all combine to
    introduce uncertainty and unpredictability, which leaves gaps for
    security errors.
    
    Hmmm... this turns into a rant more on-topic for Risks than for Bugtraq
    - I bet they have some old postings on the topic somewhere...
    
    Ken
    



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