RE: CRIME Legal info on carnivore

From: George Heuston (GeorgeH@private)
Date: Mon Aug 05 2002 - 20:59:21 PDT

  • Next message: Wil Cooley: "RE: CRIME Legal info on carnivore"

    The FBI is governed both by the Intel Oversight Board, and by the Atty
    General (AG) Guidelines noted below.  The FBI was chartered with two major
    missions: foreign counterintelligence; and investigation of federal criminal
    violations.  It is the only agency in the world so constituted.  All others
    are bifurcated into separate agencies.  In sum, the Bureau is both an intel
    and a criminal investigative entity.  A 3rd, co-equal anti-terrorism mission
    is now being established in the wake of 911, with obvious emphasis on
    prevention--which means stronger mandates for intel gathering and
    analysis--since that's what interdiction and prevention require. Hence the
    Patriot Act, et al...
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael Smith [mailto:codeyeti@private] 
    Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 1:25 PM
    To: Shaun Savage; CRIME
    Subject: Re: CRIME Legal info on carnivore
     
    OK, this is how it breaks out according to the Intelligence Oversight
    Program, which is a DoD policy and also followed by the NSA:
     
    It's illegal to collect intelligence information on any US person, a US
    person being defined as a citizen, a person who claims to be a citizen,
    or a corporation with the majority of interests in the US.
     
    The following are exceptions:
     
    -The US Attorney General can authorize collection on any US person
    similar to a search warrant (ie, there has to be evidence to warrant
    collection)
     
    -Material collected has a 90-day grace period for evaluation if it is
    unclear whether the source is a US person or not.  If at any time it is
    discovered that the source is a US person, then the material has to be
    destroyed.
     
    -"Accidental" collection (ie, during routine spectrum scanning) of a
    terrorist act, assassination, or other similar acts is reportable, as
    long as it isn't the result of a long-term collection effort.
     
    The intent of the law is to protect the privacy of the US persons, so
    sometimes the following happens:
    Alice (US person) calls Bob (foreign national)
    Bob tells Alice that he's ordering 54 RPG's and 120 anti-tank mines
    Eve (working for an intelligence agency) reports that Bob told " a US
    person" that he ordered 54 RPG's and 120 anti-tank mines.
    At no time does Eve mention Alice's name, location, or anything else that
    would violate her privacy.
     
    And yes, at one time I was Eve (anybody looking to hire a former
    intelligence operative who knows Unix? ;^) ).  Violations of the
    Intelligence Oversight Program are immediate career-stoppers in the
    intelligence organizations because at one time (1960's and before) we did
    conduct active collection efforts on US persons and there was a
    Congressional Commission on intelligence (can't remember the name of it
    off the top of my head) brought these abuses to the public forefront.
    Shortly thereafter, legislation was passed to prevent this collection.
    The policy that reflects the legislation is in the form of the
    Intelligence Oversight Program.
     
    The rules for the FBI probably are different since they aren't officially
    an intelligence organ, but a law enforcement organization.  I think that
    gives them the same status as the local cops wrt search and seizure laws.
     
    Cheers
    --Mike
     
    Shaun Savage wrote:
     
    > The last few months has seen an avalanche of new laws concerning
    > govermental spying ( inteligence gathering) on "terrorist".
    > ~ What are the new laws concerning carnivore and echlon, (personal
    > private data interception)?
    > ~ What are the different types of information gathering and what legal
    > requirment are needed for the different types.
    > Who has juristdiction to do  what?
    >
    > I understand the tech side but the legal aspect is dificult to filter
    > out to get to the heart what really can be done, legally.
    >
    > Shaun
     
    --
    "Ask a Soviet engineer to design a pair of shoes and he'll come up with
    something that looks like the boxes that the shoes came in; ask him to
    make something that will massacre Germans, and he turns into Thomas
    *Fscking* Edison."  --Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
     
    



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