RE: CRIME Fwd: uncertainty principle is untenable !!!

From: Jim Webb (jimwebb@private)
Date: Wed Dec 04 2002 - 14:52:20 PST

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: CRIME Fwd: uncertainty principle is untenable !!!"

    Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, quantum mechanics.  I remember studying
    this a few years ago, but I don't remember anything about it.  That was
    a course in physical chemistry back in 1980.  My how time flies when we
    are having fun. ;-)
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jim Webb
    
    On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 16:13, St. Clair, James wrote:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: SHA1
    > 
    > ..I think I prefer when they just ask for money :)
    > 
    > - -----Original Message-----
    > From: tobyhush@private [mailto:tobyhush@private]
    > Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 2:39 PM
    > To: CRIME list
    > Subject: CRIME Fwd: uncertainty principle is untenable !!!
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > *** PGP Signature Status: unknown
    > *** Signer: Unknown, Key ID = 0x2C331720
    > *** Signed: 12/4/2002 2:39:00 PM
    > *** Verified: 12/4/2002 4:09:26 PM
    > *** BEGIN PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
    > 
    > This is some of the more interesting spam I've recieved. I thought
    > it would make y'all laugh.
    > 
    > toby
    > 
    > - ----- Forwarded Message from guest <guest@private> -----
    > please reply to hdgbyi@private
    > or bspgong@private,
    > thank you.
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > UNCERTAINTY  PRINCIPLE
    > 
    > IS
    > 
    > UNTENABLE
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > By reanalysing the experiment of Heisenberg Gamma-Ray Microscope and
    > one of ideal experiment from which uncertainty principle is derived ,
    > it is found that actually uncertainty principle can not be obtained
    > from these two ideal experiments . And it is found that uncertainty
    > principle is untenable.
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Key words :
    > 
    > uncertainty principle; experiment of Heisenberg Gamma-Ray Microscope;
    > ideal experiment
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Ideal  Experiment  1
    > 
    > Experiment  of  Heisenberg Gamma-Ray  Microscope
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > A free electron sits directly beneath the center of the microscope's
    > lens (see the picture below or AIP page:
    > http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm). The circular lens
    > forms a cone of angle 2A from the electron. The electron is then
    > illuminated from the left by gamma rays--high energy light which has
    > the shortest wavelength. These yield the highest resolution, for
    > according to a principle of wave optics, the microscope can resolve
    > (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to a size of dx, which is
    > related to and to the wavelength L of the gamma ray, by the
    > expression:
    > 
    > dx = L/(2sinA)                                   (1)
    > 
    > However, in quantum mechanics, where a light wave can act like a
    > particle, a gamma ray striking an electron gives it a kick. At the
    > moment the light is diffracted by the electron into the microscope
    > lens, the electron is thrust to the right. To be observed by the
    > microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into any angle within the
    > cone of angle 2A. In quantum mechanics, the gamma ray carries
    > momentum, as if it were a particle. The total momentum p is related
    > to the wavelength by the formula
    > 
    >  p = h / L, where h is Planck's constant.               (2)
    > 
    > In the extreme case of diffraction of the gamma ray to the right edge
    > of the lens, the total momentum in the x direction would be the sum
    > of the electron's momentum P'x in the x direction and the gamma ray's
    > momentum in the x direction:
    > 
    >         P'x + (h sinA) / L', where L' is the wavelength of the
    > deflected gamma ray.
    > 
    > In the other extreme, the observed gamma ray recoils backward, just
    > hitting the left edge of the lens. In this case, the total momentum
    > in the x direction is:
    > 
    >       P''x - (h sinA) / L''.
    > 
    > The final x momentum in each case must equal the initial x momentum,
    > since momentum is never lost (it is conserved). Therefore, the final
    > x momenta are equal to each other:
    > 
    > P'x + (h sinA) / L' = P''x - (h sinA) / L''              (3)
    > 
    > If A is small, then the wavelengths are approximately the same,
    > 
    > L' ~ L" ~ L. So we have
    > 
    > P''x - P'x = dPx ~ 2h sinA / L                     (4)
    > 
    > Since dx = L/(2 sinA), we obtain a reciprocal relationship between
    > the minimum uncertainty in the measured position,dx, of the electron
    > along the x axis and the uncertainty in its momentum, dPx, in the x
    > direction:
    > 
    > dPx ~ h / dx    or   dPx dx ~ h.               (5)
    > 
    > For more than minimum uncertainty, the "greater than" sign may added.
    > 
    > Except for the factor of 4pi and an equal sign, this is Heisenberg's
    > uncertainty relation for the simultaneous measurement of the position
    > and momentum of an object
    > 
    >     .
    > 
    > Reanalysis
    > 
    > To be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into
    > any angle within the cone of angle 2A.
    > 
    > The microscope can resolve (that is, "see" or distinguish) objects to
    > a size of dx, which is related to and to the wavelength L of the
    > gamma ray, by the expression:
    > 
    > dx = L/(2sinA)                                   (1)
    > 
    > It is the resolving limit of the microscope, and it is the uncertain
    > quantity of the object's position.
    > 
    > Microscope can not see the object which the size is smaller than its
    > resolving limit dx.
    > 
    > Therefore, to be seen by the microscope, the size of the electron
    > must be larger than the resolving limit dx or equal to the resolving
    > limit dx.
    > 
    > But if the size of the electron is larger than or equal to the
    > resolving limit dx, electron will not be in the range dx. dx can not
    > be deemed to be the uncertain quantity of the electron's position
    > which can be seen by microscope, dx can be deemed to be the uncertain
    > quantity of the electron's position which can not be seen by
    > microscope only.
    > 
    > dx is the position's uncertain quantity of the electron which can not
    > 
    > be seen by microscope
    > 
    > To be seen by the microscope, the gamma ray must be scattered into
    > any angle within the cone of angle 2A, so we can measure the
    > 
    > momentum of the electron.
    > 
    > dPx is the momentum's uncertain quantity of the electron which can be
    > seen by microscope.
    > 
    > What relates to dx is the electron which the size is smaller than the
    > 
    > resolving limit .The electron is in the range dx, it can not be seen
    > by the microscope, so its position is uncertain.
    > 
    > What relates to dPx is the electron which the size is larger than or
    > equal to the resolving limit .The electron is not in the range dx, it
    > can be seen by the microscope, so its position is certain.
    > 
    > Therefore, the electron which relate to dx and dPx respectively is
    > not the same.
    > 
    > What we can see is the electron which the size is larger than or
    > equal to the resolving limit dx and has certain position, dx = 0..
    > 
    > Quantum mechanics does not relate to the size of the object. but on
    > the Experiment Of Heisenberg Gamma-Ray Microscope, the using of the
    > microscope must relate to the size of the object, the size of the
    > object which can be seen by the microscope must be larger than or
    > equal to the resolving limit dx of the microscope, thus it does not
    > exist alleged the uncertain quantity of the electron's position dx.
    > 
    > To be seen by the microscope, none but the size of the electron is
    > larger than or equal to the resolving limit dx, the gamma ray which
    > diffracted by the electron can be scattered into any angle within the
    > cone of angle 2A, we can measure the momentum of the electron.
    > 
    > What we can see is the electron which has certain position, dx = 0,
    > so that none but dx = 0£¬we can measure the momentum of the electron.
    > 
    > In Quantum mechanics, the momentum of the electron can be measured
    > accurately when we measure the momentum of the electron only,
    > therefore, we can gained dPx = 0.
    > 
    > Therefore ,
    > 
    > dPx dx =0.                                     (6)
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Ideal experiment 2
    > 
    > Experiment of single slit diffraction
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Supposing a particle moves in Y direction originally and then passes
    > a slit with width dx . So the uncertain quantity of the particle
    > position in X direction is dx (see the picture below) , and
    > interference occurs at the back slit . According to Wave Optics , the
    > angle where No.1 min of interference pattern is , can be calculated
    > by following formula :
    > 
    > sinA=L/2dx                                     (1)
    > 
    > and
    > 
    > L=h/p          where h is Planck¡¯s constant.       (2)
    > 
    > So uncertainty principle can be obtained
    > 
    > dPx dx ~ h                                    (5)
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Reanalysis
    > 
    > According to Newton first law , if the external force at the X
    > direction does not affect particle ,the particle will keep the
    > uniform straight line Motion State or Static State , and the motion
    > at the Y direction unchangeable .Therefore , we can lead its position
    > in the slit form its starting point .
    > 
    > The particle can have the certain position in the slit, and the
    > uncertain quantity of the position dx =0 .
    > 
    > According to Newton first law , if the external force at the X
    > direction does not affect particle,and the original motion at the Y
    > direction is unchangeable , the momentum of the particle at the X
    > direction will be Px=0 , and the uncertain quantity of the momentum
    > will be dPx =0.
    > 
    > Get:
    > 
    > dPx dx =0.                                     (6)
    > 
    > It has not any experiment to negate NEWTON FIRST LAW, in spite of
    > quantum mechanics or classical mechanics, NEWTON FIRST LAW can be the
    > same with the microcosmic world.
    > 
    > NEWTON FIRST LAW is one of the form of Energy-Momentum conservation
    > law.
    > If the external force does not affect particle, but the particle will
    > not keep the uniform straight line Motion State or Static State, it
    > has disobeyed the Energy-Momentum conservation law.
    > 
    > Under the above ideal experiment , it considered that slit¡¯s width
    > is the uncertain quantity of the particle¡¯s position. But there is
    > no reason for us to consider that the particle in the above
    > experiment have position¡¯s uncertain quantity certainly, and no
    > reason for us to consider that the slit¡¯s width is the uncertain
    > quantity of the particle¡¯s position.
    > 
    > Therefore,  uncertainty principle
    > 
    > dPx dx ~ h                                      (5)
    > 
    > which is derived from the above experiment is unreasonable .
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Concluson
    > 
    > - From the above reanalysis , it is realized that the ideal experiment
    > demonstration for uncertainty principle is untenable .
    > 
    > uncertainty principle is untenable.                      .
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Reference book :
    > 
    > 1.   Max Jammer. (1974)  The philosophy of quantum mechanics  (John
    > wiley & sons , Inc New York )   Page 65
    > 
    > 2.  Max Jammer. (1974)  The philosophy of quantum mechanics  (John
    > wiley & sons , Inc New York )   Page 67
    > 
    > http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/p08b.htm
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Author  :   Gong BingXin
    > 
    > Address :   P.O.Box A111 YongFa XiaoQu XinHua HuaDu
    > 
    >          GuangZhou 510800 P.R.China
    > 
    > E-mail  :   hdgbyi@private
    > 
    > Tel:        86---20---86856616
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > *** END PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
    > FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
    > 
    > Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program: 
    > https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427
    > 
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
    > Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
    > 
    > iQA/AwUBPe5vThd3p66CH+6/EQIxMgCgvy7yC5Fz7Mp9hDgVy/Wq6EQdMfAAn0pB
    > AK89Qnl++cpZ7/TibZ0ZafYK
    > =puBd
    > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
    -- 
    



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Wed Dec 04 2002 - 15:40:28 PST