RE: CRIME IDS is dead says Gartner

From: Andrew Plato (aplato@private)
Date: Tue Jun 24 2003 - 11:57:15 PDT

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: CRIME IDS is dead says Gartner"

    > i know this list has been through the IDS pro/con discussion
    > already, so we don't need to re-hash it, but i think we 
    > should clarify the differences between IDS and IPS.
    
    I have actually been working on a white paper that aims to define the
    difference between IPS, IDS, and firewall. The paper is obviously biased,
    since I am basing it on my experience and expertise, but essentially my core
    definitions are:
    
    IPSs:
    
    - Perform some kind of analysis of communications and/or system behavior to
    identify dangerous or potentially dangerous activity or access. 
    - Include both rule and signature-based analysis techniques.
    - Have the internal ability to *automatically* respond to identified threats
    with an active protection mechanism such as blocking the offending
    communications or preventing malicious code from running.
    - Do not rely on a secondary device (like a firewall) to implement
    protection measures. 
    - Include a central alerting and reporting mechanism where administrators
    can control the protection/detection engine and analyze events. 
    
    IDSs: 
    
    - Perform some kind of analysis of communications and/or system behavior to
    identify dangerous or potentially dangerous activity or access. 
    - Include both rule and signature-based analysis techniques.
    - Include an alerting and reporting mechanism where administrators can
    analyze events and control the detection engine. 
    
    Firewalls:
    
    - Provide access control to a network or system.
    - Include rule-based system to prevent or allow access.
    
    Essentially, an IPS is an IDS and a firewall mated together. An IPS can do
    both bulk access control and analyze for intrusions. Many technologies that
    claim to be IPS, are really just feature-rich firewalls or response-capable
    IDSs.
    
    For example, some firewalls can actively respond to spoofed addresses or
    perform some application layer proxying and filtering. I still classify
    these as firewalls, but they are moving toward the IPS space. WatchGuard for
    example does an outstanding job with its SMTP, HTTP, and DNS proxies at
    filtering out a lot of nasty stuff. 
    
    Some IDSs are trying to be more IPS-like as well. For example, some IDSs
    claim they are an IPS because they can write OPSEC rules to a Checkpoint
    firewall. In my opinion, a true IPS has its own protection measures. It
    shouldn't rely on another product to protect. 
    
    Another misconception I am hearing recently is that behavior analysis is the
    only true IPS. Behavior analysis refers to monitoring system-level
    functions, such as kernel calls.  I think behavior analysis is merely one
    variant of IPS. And its not always a good one, as it tends to scale poorly
    and can totally miss network-based attacks that, for all purposes, look like
    legitimate system behavior. (Actually, behavior analysis and network
    analysis are due for convergence, soon.) 
    
    __________________________________ 
    Andrew Plato, CISSP 
    President / Principal Consultant 
    Anitian Corporation 
     
    Enterprise Security & 
    Infrastructure Solutions 
      
    503-644-5656 Office 
    503-644-8574 Fax 
    503-201-0821 Mobile 
    www.anitian.com 
    ___________________________________ 
      
    
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Justin Kurynny [mailto:justink@private]
    > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:53 AM
    > To: Andrew Plato; crime@private
    > Subject: RE: CRIME IDS is dead says Gartner
    > 
    > 
    > i haven't read the article, but i'll make a general comment
    > anyway. there is a difference between IDS and IPS. if Gartner 
    > is only talking about IDS, i agree with the hypothesis that 
    > IDS is likely to go extinct. however, IPS apparently has 
    > value because it's actually doing something to actively fend 
    > off the attack in real time. [anyone feel free to jump in 
    > here if this statement exaggerates reality.]
    > 
    
    > 
    > justin
    > 
    > justin kurynny
    > manager of network engineering
    > waggener edstrom, inc.
    > 
    > *
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Andrew Plato [mailto:aplato@private] 
    > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 6:35 PM
    > To: crime@private
    > 
    > Some of you have probably seen this. Its been all over the 
    > news and elsewhere.
    > 
    > http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?a
    > rticleID=1
    > 0300918
    > 
    > ------------
    > 
    > EXCERPT from article
    > 
    > Intrusion-detection systems-software that attempts to spot 
    > and report attacks against information systems-will no longer 
    > be a defense in the information security pro's arsenal by 
    > 2005. That's the prediction coming out of research firm Gartner. 
    > 
    > "IDS as a security technology is going to disappear," says 
    > Richard Stiennon, a Gartner research director. 
    > 
    > Stiennon contends that organizations are going to so 
    > successfully harden their internal systems that the 
    > "burglar-alarm" service intrusion-detection systems provide 
    > will no longer be necessary. "Imagine a world where there are 
    > no intrusions," he says
    > 
    > ------------
    > 
    > This is another example of some of the mis-information that 
    > is getting out there about IDS/IPS technologies. Hardening 
    > systems and using IPS are a great way to stop attacks. But 
    > without some kind of monitoring, you simply cannot be sure. 
    > This is like removing the camera from a bank because the bank 
    > buys a really nice vault and puts great locks on the front 
    > doors. While I would like to imagine a world where there are 
    > no intrusions, I don't think that world is coming any time soon.
    > 
    > However, I am certain, that without monitoring, you'd never 
    > know if there WAS an intrusion. Hence, there is a certain 
    > absurdist logic here: "We have no IDS, our systems work, so 
    > we must be safe." Riiiiight. 
    > 
    > Personally, I think Gartner's report is more a product of 
    > poor IDS implementation and management. In the rush to get an 
    > IDS, many organizations do not take the time or effort to 
    > properly integrate, tune, and manage the system. As such, the 
    > system produces a ton alerts, which quickly get ignored. 
    > 
    > Also, IPS has a place and I am a big advocate for it, the 
    > idea that IDS will disappear is absurd. Any decent "defense 
    > in depth" strategy must consider multiple points of 
    > monitoring and response. IDS is merely one piece of the 
    > puzzle. A valuable piece (when its used properly.)  
    > 
    > Anyway, Anitian published a response on our web site: 
    > 
    http://www.anitian.com/corp/papers/Gartner%20Response.pdf
    
    Curious to hear other reactions. 
    ___________________________________
    Andrew Plato, CISSP
    President / Principal Consultant
    Anitian Corporation
    
    Enterprise Security &
    Infrastructure Solutions
     
    503-644-5656 Office
    503-644-8574 Fax
    503-201-0821 Mobile
    www.anitian.com
    ___________________________________
    



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