Dorning, Kevin E - DI-3 wrote: >So how long will it be before one of these counter attack wars itself brings the whole thing down around our heads? > I would think a long, long time. The clueless dorks who propose these "hack back" systems generally aren't smart enough to build attack 'bots that are very good at attacking :) I think these crazy proposals and startups get more press play than they might otherwise because the vision of computers literally fighting with each other brings high drama to an otherwise dry topic, so it gets the journalists excited. Crispin > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Todd Ellner [mailto:tellner@private] >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:41 PM >To: crime@private >Subject: CRIME ZDNet UK: Symbiot launches DDoS counter-strike tool > > > >This ZDNET UK story has been forwarded to you by: >Todd Ellner (tellner@private). > >They have added these comments: > >Oy vey. > >------------------------------------------------------------ >http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/security/0,39020375,39148215,00.htm > >Symbiot launches DDoS counter-strike tool > >Munir Kotadia > > >Symbiot, a Texas-based security firm, is preparing to launch a corporate >defence system at the end of March that can fight back against distributed >denial-of-service (DDoS) and hacker attacks by launching a counter-strike. >In advance of the product launch, Symbiot's president, Mike Erwin, and its >chief scientist, Paco Nathan, have outlined a set of "rules of engagement for >information warfare", which they say should be part of corporate security >policy to help companies determine their exact response to an incoming >attack. >"Until today, security solutions have been totally passive in nature. Merely >erecting defensive walls around the perimeter of an enterprise network is not >an adequate deterrent," said Erwin, who argues that to have a >complete defence in place, offensive tactics must be employed. The company >said it bases its theory on the military doctrine of "necessity and >proportionality", which means the response to an attack is proportionate to >the attack's ferocity. According to the company, a response could range from >"profiling and blacklisting upstream providers" or it could be escalated to >launch a "distributed denial of service counter-strike". >Security experts expressed alarm at the company's plans. >Graham Titterington, principal analyst at Ovum, said "such a >counterattack would not be regarded as self-defence and would therefore be an >attack. It would be illegal in those jurisdictions where an anti-hacking law >is in place." He added that because many hacking and DDoS attacks are >launched from hijacked computers, the system would be unlikely to find its >real target: "Attacks are often launched from a site that has been hijacked, >making it an unwitting and innocent -- although possibly slightly negligent >-- party." >Richard Starnes, director of incident response at Cable and Wireless Managed >Security Services, said he would not employ an "active defence technique" >because there are legal and ethical issues involved. Also, he would not be >happy about any product "specifically designed to launch attacks" being put >into commercial production. Starnes said it would be easy to hit the wrong >target and even if it was the right target, there could be collateral damage: >"You may be taking out grandma's computer in Birmingham that has got a >100-year-old cookie recipe that has not been backed up. The attack could also >knock over a Point of Presence (PoP), so you are not only attacking the >target, but also the feeds before them -- this means taking out ISPs, >businesses and home users." >Jay Heiser, chief analyst at IT risk management company TruSecure, said that >he expects the product to have "emotional appeal" to companies that have been >targets, but "that is a very bad criterion for choosing risk-reduction >measures." >"There is no evidence that this is the most effective way to deal with the >problems and there is quite a bit of historical precedence that indicates it >is totally counterproductive," added Heiser. >Governments could soon be using hacker tools for law enforcement and the >pursuit of justice, according to an expert on IT and Internet law. Joel >Reidenberg, professor of law at New York-based Fordham University, believes >it likely that denial of service attacks (DoS) and packet-blocking technology >will be employed by nation states to enforce their laws. This could even >include attacks on companies based in other countries, he says. >ZDNet UK's Graeme Wearden contributed to this story. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >If it moves, we cover it. See ZDNet UK's Mobile Technology News Section >for the latest news, reviews and price checks on mobile phones, PDAs, >notebook computers and anything else you can take away. > >Let the editors know what you think in the Mailroom. > > >ZDNet News: The UK's best source for computing news - updated >throughout the day. http://news.zdnet.co.uk/ > >Please report any abuse of this service to ukwebmaster@private > >Copyright © 2003 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. >ZDNET is a registered service mark of CNET Networks, Inc. >ZDNET Logo is a service mark of CNET NETWORKS, Inc. > > > -- Crispin Cowan, Ph.D. http://immunix.com/~crispin/ CTO, Immunix http://immunix.com Immunix 7.3 http://www.immunix.com/shop/
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