RE: CRIME Save a Chatlog... Go to Prison?

From: May Richard (richard.may@private)
Date: Wed Apr 14 2004 - 09:25:13 PDT

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    Actually, if you look at the statute, 165.540(a) refers to
    telecommunication(s)or radio communication and 165.540(c) refers to a
    conversation.  Per 165.535(1) "Conversation" means the transmission
    between two or more persons of an oral communication which is not a
    telecomunication or a radio communication."
    
    Per 165.535(4) "telecommunication means the transmission of writing,
    signs, signals, pictures and sounds of all kinds by aid of wire, cable
    or other similar connection between the points of origin and reception
    of such transmission, including all instrumentalities, facilities,
    equipment and services (including, among other things, the receipt,
    forwarding and delivering of communications) incidental to such
    transmission."
    
    Per 165.535(3) "Radio communication means the transmission by radio or
    other wirless methods of writing, signs, signals, pictures and sounds of
    all kinds, including all instrumentalities, facilities, equipment and
    services (includ9ng, among other things, the receipt, forwarding and
    delivering of communications) incidental to such transmission.
    
    Conversations appear to be face to face meetings, or at least
    communications not using electronic means.  A telephone conversation
    would appear to fit into either telecommunication or radio
    communication, or both.
    
    (all this is under Oregon Law, and I have no idea of the legal
    ramifications if a person in Oregon recorded a telephone conversation
    with one from Washington without letting them know first.  It does
    appear that if both persons are in Oregon, you can record to your
    heart's content so long as a participant to the telecommunication/radio
    communication agrees.) 
    
    Richard May, Investigative Auditor
    Oregon Department of Justice, Medicaid Fraud Unit
    1515 SW Fifth Avenue, Suite 410, Portland, OR  97201
    Tel:  (503) 229-5725 x216   Fax:  (503) 229-5459 
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Warren Harrison [mailto:warren@private] 
    Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:59 PM
    To: Robert D. Young
    Cc: CRIME List; warren@private
    Subject: Re: CRIME Save a Chatlog... Go to Prison?
    
    
    Robert D. Young wrote:
    
    >Verrrry interesting. That contradicts what I've been told by several
    >Oregon lawyers (and good ones, too). I'll have to look more into
    this...
    >  
    >
    
    165.540 Subsection (a) says you need one party's permission,
    subsection (c) says you need both parties' *knowledge*. So you
    can say "Hi, tape's rolling ..." and you don't even need to
    ask their permission. Two party states (I believe) require
    both party's *permission* - not just knowledge.
    
    
    
    Warren
    
    
    
    >- Robert
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Warren Harrison [mailto:warren@private] 
    >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 7:57 PM
    >To: Robert D. Young
    >Cc: CRIME List
    >Subject: Re: CRIME Save a Chatlog... Go to Prison?
    >
    >Robert D. Young wrote:
    >
    >  
    >
    >>It's my understanding from what the lawyers have told me that the 
    >>one-party state rules are applicable only when both parties are in the
    
    >>same state. Of course, it may also work if someone in Missouri calls 
    >>someone in Oregon (also a one-party state), but I'll wait for someone 
    >>with a legal background to advise me before I'll try it. In the 
    >>meantime, I'll continue to inform anyone I suspect may be out-of-state
    
    >>before I start any substantive recording (i.e., I'll record their 
    >>denial or acceptance, regardless).
    >>
    >>- Robert
    >> 
    >>
    >>    
    >>
    >
    >Just so no one gets into trouble, in Oregon you only need one person's
    >permission, but *both* parties have to be aware of the recording.  ORS
    >165.540(c) says:
    >
    >   [no person shall ... ] obtain the whole or any part of a
    conversation
    >by means of
    >   any device [...] if all parties in the conversation are not
    >specifically informed
    >   that their conversation is being obtained.
    >
    >so you should also be informing people in Oregon before you start *any*
    >recording. I am not sure if this was implied in your e-mail or not, but
    >just so others don't think they can record their conversations with
    >someone else in Oregon without informing them.
    >
    >There are exceptions for educational classes, public meetings, etc.
    >
    >Violation is an A class misdemeanor.
    >
    >Warren
    >
    >
    >--
    >======================================================================
    >Warren Harrison, EIC/IEEE Software Magazine          warren@private 
    >Department of Computer Science           http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~warren
    >Portland State University                          PHONE: 503-725-3108
    >Portland, OR 97207-0751                              FAX: 503-725-3211
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >  
    >
    
    
    -- 
    ======================================================================
    Warren Harrison, EIC/IEEE Software Magazine          warren@private 
    Department of Computer Science           http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~warren
    Portland State University                          PHONE: 503-725-3108
    Portland, OR 97207-0751                              FAX: 503-725-3211
    



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