Re: Intrusion Detection

From: Marcus J. Ranum (mjrat_private)
Date: Wed Apr 15 1998 - 14:31:02 PDT

  • Next message: Marcus J. Ranum: "Re: Intrusion Detection"

    Adam Shostack writes:
    >	5) To detect the fact that you've been hooked up to YA
    >extranet without any protection.
    
    	Or notification! :) I forgot that one. :) For lack of a
    better term, at NFR we've been calling this kind of thing
    "change notification."
    
    	"Hello! A new ethernet address just appeared on subnet 16 that
    is emitting IP with hopcount greater than one!"
    
    	Is that a security alert or a network management alert?
    I guess it depends on whether you expected the thing to appear
    when it did, or not! :)
    
    >	Also, allow me to clarify my point from yesterday (the one
    >Marcus disagreed with 180 degrees).  In talking about attack
    >detection, I meant useful in the sense "the value you can extract from
    >what you buy," not useful in the sense that you get more time to not
    >be at work.
    
    	Aha -- that's the root of our confusion (I was surprised
    to find myself disagreeing with Adam) :)  My take, as a pointy
    hair suit, is that time my network manager spends doing security
    is a loss against time they could have spent growing the network
    or directly building shareholder value. So I only want them to
    be messing with intrusion alarms and backtracks in the event
    that it's an attack that will cost me money if it's not addressed
    immediately. Attacks that I know my security system will likely
    block are nothing I care about because I don't want my staff
    spending time tracking down every scriptkid that tries my
    network.
    
    >	The value you get from a Bro or one of its commercial
    >relatives is that you know you're under attack.  (Inset Aleph's
    >comments here.)  It detects attacks, not intrusions.
    
    If you could somehow extend that to say "it detects attacks
    that appear to be potentially successful" then you'd get my
    money. :) The skilled attacker, unfortunately, isn't going to
    run SATAN against my network as a courtesy to tickle my IDS
    before he zaps through my firewall with Cthulhu-5.0 and ghosts
    into my WAN. :(  I don't see a way we can build a programmatic
    model for threat level escalation, when there's really not much
    correlatable cross-event information. This is not like a military
    environment, where the satellite recon can detect tanks moving
    weeks before the jump off. :(  :(  :(
    
    mjr.
    --
    Marcus J. Ranum, CEO, Network Flight Recorder, Inc.
    work - http://www.nfr.net
    home - http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr
    



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