Re: Q on external router

From: Adam Shostack (adamat_private)
Date: Thu Apr 23 1998 - 00:25:14 PDT

  • Next message: Eric Vyncke: "Re: Q on external router"

    Vinci Chou wrote:
    | On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Vinci Chou wrote:
    | 
    | > traffic on the DMZ.  However, it was also pointed out by somebody a switch
    | > doesn't make a lot of difference.  So is it possible to do something like
    | 
    | After posting my question, I searched the archive at nfr.net and the
    | argument by "Adam Shostack" against a switch in the DMZ was not that it
    | cannot prevent sniffing but rather, it may not stand malicious attack.
    | However, he did not quote any concrete evidence or example because these
    | are relatively new.
    | 
    | I am wondering if any one can share his/her experience of using a switch
    | in the DMZ.
    
    	Allow me to clarify my argument.
    
    	Do not rely on switches because switches are not designed for
    security.  This is not an argument that switches are, or are not
    buggy.  Others have already posted explanations of possible flaws.  I
    did not because I don't care about possible flaws in products while
    doing my first order reasoning.
    
    	If a switch happens to be buggy, you can find that
    information, and fix your switch.  But this is a losing battle,
    because there will always be new bugs.  You need to choose security
    components because they were designed for security, and hope like hell
    that this means that they have fewer bugs than products that were
    designed for other things.
    
    	I've used and removed switches from a DMZ, because the
    switches led to the following reasoning:
    
    	"If one of our (identical) web servers is broken into, we
    don't want people sniffing account numbers off the net, so we'll use
    switches."
    
    	It did not occur to them (but did occur to our tiger team :)
    that its much easier to re-write the CGIs to log the information than
    it is to pull it off the wire.  Fortunately, however, it was already
    being sent to syslog, so we just needed to redirect that, and leave
    the web server alone.
    
    	So, others have posted bugs in the implementation of switches.
    I prefer to start by looking for bugs in the design of a system, and
    the thought that goes into the design.  Switches are usually a
    mistake, except when you deploy them for network performance reasons.
    
    Adam
    
    
    -- 
    Just be thankful that Microsoft does not manufacture pharmaceuticals.
    



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