RE: [fw-wiz] CERT vulnerability note VU# 539363

From: Stephen Gill (gillsrat_private)
Date: Wed Oct 16 2002 - 06:20:09 PDT

  • Next message: Paul D. Robertson: "Re: [fw-wiz] CERT vulnerability note VU# 539363"

    In my opinion if a stateful firewall claims it can filter at rate X
    (64byte packets, etc...), it should be able to filter at that rate under
    all conditions.  Clearly a 100MB firewall that can be overloaded with
    1MB of traffic is not good.  I'd argue that if a 100MB firewall can be
    overloaded with 34MB of traffic, it's also not a good thing.  But then
    again, even 100MB of filtering won't save you in a 100MB DoS which is
    not all that uncommon.  
    
    I'd like to learn some of the other methods being used for mitigation
    amongst vendors.  
    
    -- steve
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Mikael Olsson [mailto:mikael.olssonat_private] 
    Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:44 AM
    To: Stephen Gill
    Cc: firewall-wizardsat_private
    Subject: Re: [fw-wiz] CERT vulnerability note VU# 539363
    
    
    Stephen Gill wrote:
    > 
    > Thought I'd pass this along.
    > 
    > http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/539363
    
    Although this is something that people need to keep in mind when 
    picking / designing a firewall, I'd argue that anything north of
    a stateless packet filter is going to be vulnerable to these sort
    of attacks.  
    
    If you keep state, you will be vulnerable to state table overflows. 
    Period.  The only real question is: how much work does the attacker 
    need to put in before it becomes painful for the networks that the 
    firewall is protecting?  Is being able to resist a  1 Mbps stream 
    (~4500 pps) "Not vulnerable"?  Is being able resist a 34 Mbps stream
    (~150 kpps) "Not vulnerable"?  Or should every single firewall
    vendor report in and say "Vulnerable", and describe what the limit is?
    
    
    And, yes, ALG-only firewalls can also be overloaded. It's just a 
    different type of 'state'.
    
    -- 
    Mikael Olsson, Clavister AB
    Storgatan 12, Box 393, SE-891 28 ÖRNSKÖLDSVIK, Sweden
    Phone: +46 (0)660 29 92 00   Mobile: +46 (0)70 26 222 05
    Fax: +46 (0)660 122 50       WWW: http://www.clavister.com
    
    "Senex semper diu dormit"
    
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