Re: Who's liable? - fbi

From: Alvin Oga (
Date: Sat Oct 13 2001 - 15:59:52 PDT

  • Next message: Jensenne Roculan: "Dead Thread - Who's Liable?"

    hi ya
    out here ( san jose area ) ... the agencies out here are
    fairly lenient and good about investigating computer crimes...
    they ( fbi )  get involved when "it" becomes a felony across
    interstate lines or gov't property... ( think a felony is anything that
    was $10,000 or more in damages ... forgot .. "a small amount"
    think they did confiscate some smurf attacker's PCs..
    ( can't get confirmation etc...since it was under investigation at the time
    - told um the sites that maintains potential smurf amplifiers sites etc
    - took a month or so of "watching the smurfing going on" ....but dont
      think the smurf'ers been back since
    have fun linuxing/securing..
    On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Jay D. Dyson wrote:
    > On Sat, 13 Oct 2001, Michael F. Bell wrote:
    > > Lets say you are a small realty agency, and you provide internet access
    > > to your employees and one of your employees hacks into the Whitehouse
    > > website from your internal network.
    > <snip>
    > > Who is liable??  What can the FBI do at this point? 
    > 	No liability is identified at the time.  But I guarantee you that
    > the FBI will confiscate all machines on site and send them off for
    > forensics evidence gathering.  Don't bother objecting that it will cause
    > your business undue hardship.  LEAs don't care.  Period.
    > 	Depends on the damages.  If they reach a certain amount, the FBI
    > will be called in and we're back to situation one as described in the
    > earlier part of my reply.  If the damages are minimal and don't warrant
    > FBI involvement, then eBay will simply absorb the loss, (hopefully) make
    > appropriate updates to their security policies, practices and procedures,
    > and mush on.
    > 	In the final analysis, any system that can't do even basic
    > auditing and accountability on their networks will -- at the very least --
    > wind up on many an admin's firewall blacklist.  I've been doing as much
    > with abuse-friendly networks since the '90s.  At most, the FBI will be
    > called in and will (in the name of the law) rip that network's systems
    > down to the wires. 
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