Re: [logs] Best Practices for Application Logging

From: todd glassey (todd.glasseyat_private)
Date: Fri Oct 12 2001 - 11:31:16 PDT

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    John - I don't mean to be the arbiter of doom or the evil one ... but I
    think your response is dated. It shows a mindset wherein there is a
    willingness to trust the systems operators as the anchoring trust element
    and that is just plain foolish I think.
    
    Today more and more there is a need to abstract the operator from the
    systems logging process so that the process may support any testimony
    independently from us as to actions our machines take.
    
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "John Ladwig" <jladwigat_private>
    To: "todd glassey" <todd.glasseyat_private>
    Cc: "Fred Mobach" <fredat_private>; "Hal Snyder" <halat_private>; "Log
    Analysis Mailing List" <loganalysisat_private>
    Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 10:01 PM
    Subject: Re: [logs] Best Practices for Application Logging
    
    
    > > > >
    > > > >    Keep to an absolute minimum the number of steps between the
    > > > >    system creating log information and the person who needs it. The
    > > > >    more complex a system is to configure and maintain, the less
    > > > >    likely it is to be used. Avoid glitz and eye candy.
    > > > >
    > > > >    The #1 most successful use of logging we have today simply scoops
    > > > >    up new log content, looks for interesting items, and emails
    > > > >    selected staff. This is after multiple generations of all sorts
    of
    > > > >    more complicated stuff. We still run fancy GUIfied monitoring
    > > > >    screens, but that is mainly for the visitors. :)
    > >
    > > And for the most part the content captured will not stand up in court
    since
    > > there is no way to tell where the logging data come from or how it was
    > > managed. Further it is your testimony that substantiates the even making
    you
    > > the lynchpin of the trust model. That is exactly the weakness that we
    need
    > > to address. Removing human culpability from the equation.
    >
    > Hmm?  In my court experience, logged information "kept as normal business
    > records," attested to as accurate by someone who would be operationally
    > resposible for either the system or the records, suffices most times.
    
    Because no one knew any better then but they do now.
    
    >
    > Logs aren't formal mathematic proofs of anything, but even
    > non-cryptographically-signed and non-digitally-notarized records can be
    > used as part of a body of evidence and testimony to "prove beyond a
    > reasonable doubt."
    
    Until such time as any reasonable opposing counsel stands up and say's
    "prove it" and then you look like an... well you get the point I hope.
    
    >
    > Do you have substantive personal court experience to the contrary?
    
    Oh yes, and there is another new instance popping up every day - for
    instance take the Whitehouse "Email fiasco" of the Clinton Days was just
    such an instance.
    
    >
    >    -jml
    >
    >
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