Re: [logs] syslog & Win2k?

From: Frank Solomon (sysfrankat_private)
Date: Mon Dec 17 2001 - 05:31:07 PST

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    Mike,
    
    I'm not sure that a University represents the "real world."  It's more like 
    a battlefield.  Everyone seemed to think central logging was a good 
    idea.  But, for eight years we talked about it and no one wanted to "take 
    on" the challenge.  Technicians fought about the platform, committees 
    fought about policy, administrators fought about who'd pay for it, and 
    who'd look at it.  Finally, I took the "Field of Dreams" approach, and 
    decided to build one and see who came.
    
    Well, since September we've been testing what I built using a syslog daemon 
    for Win2k as a central log server.  Like Dave Gillett (on this list), we 
    purchased SL4NT, it is relatively inexpensive and yet reliable.  Centrally, 
    we've got it running on a 350MHz Windows 2000 Server and storing the logs 
    in a SQL Server 2000 database (the database license is relatively 
    expensive, we considered MySQL, but we wanted XML capability and 
    integration with Active Directory).  On the basis of this test I got a 
    small budget to purchase a production machine and software (should be here 
    next year).
    
    So far, we're pleased with the syslogd part of the system.  It seems to be 
    able to keep up with the traffic, even when we poured the logs from one of 
    our firewalls "full-bore" into it along with everything else:  we 
    eventually trimmed it down, but "that day" we logged about 7 GB of event 
    data.  I thought that was respectable for a test machine.
    
    We decided to achieve scalability by having "satellite" collection points 
    that only "forward on" to our central log server the events of "central" 
    interest (those that we chose not to ignore).  SL4NT allows for this 
    because one of the actions that you can associate with a rule is to forward 
    events to another log server.  We haven't fully tested the performance of 
    this piece yet, but we're hopeful.  One appealing thing is that you can 
    manage the rule-sets on the "satellite" SL4NT daemons from a MMC 
    plug-in.  The windows machines are also an "easier sell" in the field than 
    adding a Linux or FreeBSD box, but they could just as easily serve as 
    "satellite" collection points.  (Centrally, we have a lot of Unix 
    experience, but that isn't universally true among the ~800 departments).
    
    Because we're new at this central log collection game, there are several 
    problems that we haven't solved:
    
    Although we're storing the data in a database, which makes writing a web 
    front-end relatively easy, we haven't achieved a "steady-state" where we're 
    archiving as many log entries each day as we're adding.
    
    Our search for a suitable syslog client for NT, 2000 and XP ended when we 
    examined Tina Bird's recommendation of "EventReporter" from 
    Adiscon.  (Thanks Tina.) EventReporter has a few rough points, but we 
    noticed that it was also favorably reviewed at the last SANS Institute 
    conference.
    
    We're continuing to struggle with what we're going to do about collecting 
    logs from Novell servers, despite the great suggestions from this list.
    
    We've got the MVS syslog daemon sending relatively worthless events from 
    our IBM mainframe to the test central log server; but we're not sure how 
    we're going to get the important logs sent via that mechanism yet.
    
    Centralizing our Web logs and Mail logs and making those easier to search 
    is also a problem that we're facing.  These logs have special requirements 
    that the plain-text syslog mechanism just doesn't address very well.  These 
    logs are also enormous, we probably won't be loading them into the same 
    database where we store all the typical syslog data.  However, I also know 
    that "grep" is an inadequate tool with logs of this size and 
    complexity.  In a typical example of "the tail wagging the dog," it looks 
    like the size of our logs, given the retention policy that our committees 
    are considering, may well exceed the total size of all our administrative 
    systems and data warehouse combined.  (Is this the real world?)
    
    Meanwhile, we're listening to vendors, who all want to sell us a 
    "solution."  That might not be so bad, if they just understood the 
    problem.  It may be that we'll buy one of these solutions and they'll scrap 
    what I've done, but until then, I'm having fun.  (I guess that's a hint 
    that this isn't the real world.)
    
    Sincerely,
    Frank
    
    At 02:56 PM 12/14/2001 +0100, Mike Blomgren wrote:
    >I'm interested in hearing some 'real world' experience with running a
    >syslog daemon on Win2k, and would like to hear your opinions.
    
    . . .snip. . .
    
    
    
    
    
    *****************************************
    Frank Solomon
    University of Kentucky
    http://www.franksolomon.net
    
    The question is not whether machines think,
    but whether people do. . .
    --Paraphrased from B.F. Skinner
    
    *****************************************
    
    
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