Re: Covert Channels

From: Dave McCormick (mccormicat_private)
Date: Thu Oct 17 2002 - 06:27:41 PDT

  • Next message: Jeremy Junginger: "Covert Channels"

    Vince Gallo also showed how he created covert channels using valid mapi
    email in his Bunratty Attack presentation.  A copy of the presentation is
    available in PDF at
    http://chi-publishing.com/isb/backissues/ISB_2001/ISB0605/ISB0605VG.pdf
    
    It demonstrates how one can use a valid application (in this case mapi
    email) to covertly communicate with and even remotely control a system on
    a otherwise protected network.  All traffic appears to be valid email.
    
    Pretty slick.
    
    
    Dave McCormick
    
    daveat_private
    mccormicat_private
    
    24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
    
    On Wed, 16 Oct 2002, Erik Parker wrote:
    
    >
    > > Many people have discussed this concept, but nothing has ever taken form.
    > >
    > > In order to get a host machine to pull this out of the packet and USE it,
    > > you'd have to re-write the IP stack for that machine. If you can replace an
    > > IP stack on a machine, there's no good reason to be doing it in the first
    > > place, as you've already got root (or some form of escalated privs).
    >
    > Well.. That's not really accurate.. A few people have written programs that
    > let you send data in "Secret".. In Tcp headers, as well as ICMP headers.. and
    > the router does not toss them out, as long as their put in variable sections.
    > (and upd headers.. and just about everything else a router will let you send)
    >
    > In fact, there is a ICMP chat program on freshmeat, that lets you and someone
    > else chat to each other via icmp packets.  And there certainly is a point to
    > it.. It's easier to bypass a crappy IDS system if you hide your data.
    >
    > There have been people who were owned, and get shell code sent to
    > them via little bits of shell code tacked on to the end of email spam
    > messages, and a service on the remote side intercepting those mails and executing the code
    > via direction from arp traffic.
    >
    > The overhead is a lot greater, especially if you throw encryption into it..
    > and the methods are slow, but they work.. Also, in the case of ICMP traffic..
    > nobody really looks at it too closely for the most part, so it's pretty easy
    > to stick things in there. A backdoor on a system could easily sit and watch
    > icmp all day looking for their command packets to come in.
    >
    > I'm not sure why you'd need to replace the IP stack on the machine.. you're
    > not modifying the internet protocol.. just some of the data it carries.
    >
    > Lots of ways to hide your traffic.. And technically, you could do it without
    > actually needing a sniffer running, if you already own the system.. Just
    > intercept the calls with your own functions..
    >
    > So, I'd have to say 'completely pointless' is a improper term to use here..
    > Because it is in fact, a method that has been used against some of the most
    > well known 'white hats' out there.. to bypass their IDS systems, and live
    > silently on their systems.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    



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