FC: More on Timothy McVeigh and essay distributed online

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Mon May 07 2001 - 15:38:58 PDT

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    Politech members have raised questions about the authenticity of the 
    McVeigh essay, which appears to have been translated into Britishisms. It 
    is, however, apparently legitimate. FOX News reports it was sent to one of 
    their correspondents: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,17500,00.html
    
    Washington Post coverage of Gore Vidal, who says he condemns the bombing 
    but is sympathetic to McVeigh's views on Waco and the Bill of Rights. 
    McVeigh has allowed Vidal to attend the execution:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52073-2001May6.html
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49149-2001May5.html
    
    -Declan
    
    ***********
    
    From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeksat_private>
    To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private>, politechat_private
    Cc: emcat_private
    Subject: RE: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the N
    	et
    Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:41:14 -0700
    
    Are you just a total fucking idiot, Eric, or do you just play one on the
    Net?
    
    Regardless of horrendous events at the hands of our own government law
    enforcement agencies, McVeigh's actions go beyond the pale.
    
    This pathetic bag of shit didn't have the balls or intelligence to carry out
    a strategic attack so he had to result to throwing gasoline on a crowd and
    lighting a match.  Some "statement."
    
    If he struck a military installation or blew away a group of agents there
    might be some slight room for debating that he was "retaliating" but he
    killed children.
    
    Kids, you fucking moron, he killed KIDS.
    
    McVeigh isn't an "Army of One" he's common, scum of the earth dirtbag
    criminal material.  No more, possibly less.
    
    ***********
    
    From: "Thomas Leavitt" <thomasleavittat_private>
    To: declanat_private
    Cc: emcat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via 
    the Net
    Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:19:29 -0700
    
    Declan,
    
    His method of action was inexecusable, but the points made here by McVeigh 
    are razor sharp:
    
    our government's actions abroad are often as or more inexecusable that the 
    Murrah bombing
    
    the "militarization" of civilian law enforcement officers is quite 
    disturbing... this tendency can be observed in both federal and local 
    agencies; we, the citizens, are not "the enemy", but our law enforcement 
    officers are being trained to think that way.
    
    from what I heard in an NPR interview with the author of "Killing Pablo", 
    our government engaged in promoting and assisting mass extra-judicial 
    executions in Columbia, and U.S. personell, both civilian and military, 
    co-ordinated quite closely with the locals who pulled the trigger (and 
    likely did more than that, we will probably never know) - that this 
    happened, and moreover, that it will probably go unremarked upon and 
    undebated, is terribly threatening to the vitality of American democracy. 
    It sets a precedent, and a base level for what is considered acceptable 
    behavior by law enforcement, that endangers every right granted us in the 
    U.S. Constitution.
    
    i have heard, directly from someone involved, that the U.S. sent special 
    forces personell into El Salvador in the 1980s to assassinate local elected 
    officials viewed a sympathetic to the FMLN (press members I contacted after 
    hearing this said, "yes, we know about it, but we can't get anyone to say 
    anything on the record, so we are not running the story").
    
    we hypocritically demand that the world conform to rules that we ourselves 
    do not choose to follow, this undermines the credibility any statements 
    made by Americans, both as members of the government, and private citizens, 
    regarding human rights abuses abroad - and moreover, at home: hypocrisy is 
    terribly corrosive to credibility.
    
    ***
    
    in my view, war and random violence is not an acceptable means of executing 
    policy, either by individuals or groups (be they governments, or not)
    
    i oppose capital punishment - McVeigh should be imprisoned for the rest of 
    his life, for violating the social contract and metaphorically speaking, 
    putting his fist in the face of many people who had little or nothing to do 
    with this dispute - your right to your freedom extends right up to the 
    point of my nose
    
    if he has something to say, we should hear it, because a dialogue on the 
    issue he raises would be more than worthwhile... if the establishment fears 
    that he will somehow become a spokesman and a rallying point for those 
    opposed to the policies outlined in his statement below, that is even more 
    of a reason to have him speak and have his views countered and dissected in 
    a public forum.
    
    I believe, ultimately, that the result will be an accounting that properly 
    stigmatizes him for mass murder, repudiates the methods he choose to 
    address these issues, and separates the man from the message: I feel 
    perfectly comfortable stating that I agree with many of the concerns he 
    outlines, without feeling that by doing so, I endorse or validate his 
    methods and/or his overall belief system.
    
    Regards,
    Thomas Leavitt
    
    ***********
    
    Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:56:56 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Charles <questerat_private>
    To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    cc: politechat_private, emcat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via 
    the Net
    
     > ----- Forwarded message from Eric Cordian <emcat_private> 
    -----
     >
     > As Gore Vidal said, "This guy's got a case."  Too bad he's being spun by
     > the Federal propaganda machine as some sort of rabid terrorist.
    
    He _is_ a rabid terrorist.  As are those who perpetrated the atrocities he
    rebels against.  The answer to terrorism is not more terrorism --
    fortunately, because governments and corporations can do it far more
    effectively than isolated individuals like McVeigh.
    
       -   Charles   -
    
    ***********
    
    From: "Duplantis, Ron" <Ron.Duplantisat_private>
    To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private>
    Subject: RE: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the N
    	et
    Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:52:51 -0700
    
    RE: Mr. McVeigh's "own" words and Mr. Cordian's take on them ...
    
    First an item of skepticism. Apparently, the UK media anglicized McVeigh's
    "own" words by spelling terms like "behaviour, "centre" and "organisation"
    in the British fashion. I don't think those are actually McVeigh's
    spellings, and since those quotations were supposed to have been gleaned
    from a written document, there really is no excuse for failure to maintain
    McVeigh's "own" words. Wonder what else was changed? Just a thought...
    
    Second, Cordian blesses the "clinical detachment" that McVeigh applied to
    the bombing. That's sad in that Cordian, therefore, blesses the "collateral
    damage" concept attributed to McVeigh. I was never a soldier and don't claim
    to be a student of military strategy. But I doubt seriously whether the U.S.
    military would exercise the same kind of "clinical detachment" when deciding
    to bomb an installation in which 1) it knew there were numerous agencies
    that had nothing to do with the primary target(s) (in McVeigh's case, the
    ATF), and 2) such a huge "crop" of obviously innocent lives (especially
    children) were positioned dead center of the targeted location (in McVeigh's
    case, a daycare center).
    
    Third, Cordian agrees with two constructs which fail (miserably) any test of
    logic. 1. Whatever the perceived grievances might be, the comparison of the
    OK bombing with targeting foreign sites is absurd on its face. McVeigh
    writes: "Bombing the Murrah federal building was morally and strategically
    equivalent to the US hitting a government building in Serbia, Iraq, or other
    nations." Whatever the rationale for targeting a foreign site, one potential
    "weapon" that is **not** available to the military is the use of the working
    functions of the foreign government (if there are any) to produce the
    desired result. In other words, the U.S. military has no standing to
    formally petition a foreign government like the citizens of that country
    can. McVeigh was fortunate to have been born in a country whose government
    constitutionally contains arguably the most available tools for peacefully
    changing public policy -- elections, activism, office-seeking, free speech.
    The military does not have that option when dealing with aggravating foreign
    entities. 2. The argument that McVeigh makes concerning "federal actions
    [that] grew increasingly militaristic and violent," places that trend in a
    vacuum. It ignores the fact that the Feds (and one can see the same trend
    even on the state and local police level) have been reacting to
    "increasingly militaristic and violent" and marginalized extremist groups.
    For instance, the Los Angeles police department had no on-the-street
    capability of handling military-type criminals when those two suicidal bank
    robbers took over a neighborhood several years ago. The police were clearly
    out-gunned, and had to borrow assault type weapons from a local gun store to
    combat the pair. Now LAPD cruisers are equipped for such an eventuality. The
    same reaction has occurred on all levels of law enforcement.
    
    Fourth, Cordian buys into the silly concept that McVeigh's actions actually
    have had an effect on government function. McVeigh writes: "It was in this
    climate then, that I reached the decision to go on the offensive - to put a
    check on government abuse of power where others has failed in stopping the
    federal juggernaut run amok." "Put a check on government"! If this wasn't
    such a serious subject, it would be the best of jokes. Last time I looked at
    my copy of the U.S. Constitution, there were three branches that checked
    each other, and elections and trial juries and free speech that provided
    average citizens avenues into affecting how each branch checked the others.
    McVeigh putting "a check on government"? His actions ironically achieved
    just the opposite. Now government has even more reason to stand
    militaristically vigilant, and now with tacit public approval.
    
    And last, Cordian's attempt to resurrect McVeigh as a POW again escapes even
    an ethereal connection with logic. First, he calls McVeigh's impending
    execution a "murder." And then he writes: "Too bad he's being spun by the
    Federal propaganda machine as some sort of rabid terrorist. Isn't killing a
    disarmed POW a human rights violation?  This principle should apply to an
    Army of One, just as it applies to an Army of Many." I guess one can imagine
    oneself as an army. McVeigh clearly does. None of that changes the true
    meaning of words. A terrorist is one who applies violent means when he
    perceives no other avenue. A cursory examination of the government of this
    country demonstrates that other avenues exist. Do things sometimes change
    slowly? Perhaps, but that goes to patience not whether or not grievance
    methodologies exist.
    
    McVeigh is a warped common criminal who clinically detached himself from the
    human race. He deserves the most extreme punishment for his actions. And
    those who would use such an extreme example of wayward Libertarianism to
    attack the sensibilities of peaceful average citizens, not to mention the
    science of logic, are either oddball opportunists or just plain dangerous.
    
    My two cents,
    
    Thanks,
    Ron Duplantis
    Huntington Beach, CA
    cajunincaat_private
    
    ***********
    
    Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 15:02:21 -0400
    From: Julieryanat_private (Julie Ryan)
    Reply-To: julieryanat_private
    Organization: http://www.julieryan.com/
    To: declanat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via 
    the Net
    
    Any authentication that this was actually written by McVeigh and not a
    different person trying to use McVeigh's name and plight as a platform?
    Let's review the bidding here: a Brit journalist claims to have been
    directed by McVeigh to contact an anonymous friend of McVeigh in order
    to get the real deal, previously unpublished explanations.  The friend,
    who had carefully kept the secret for quite a long time now, then gives
    up the treasure to the Brit journalist, who then goes on to fame and
    glory after scooping the entire rest of the journalism world.  Hmmm.....
      Funny how McVeigh uses the Brit spelling conventions (e.g., "rumours").
    
    ***********
    
    
    
    
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