Politech members have raised questions about the authenticity of the McVeigh essay, which appears to have been translated into Britishisms. It is, however, apparently legitimate. FOX News reports it was sent to one of their correspondents: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,17500,00.html Washington Post coverage of Gore Vidal, who says he condemns the bombing but is sympathetic to McVeigh's views on Waco and the Bill of Rights. McVeigh has allowed Vidal to attend the execution: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52073-2001May6.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49149-2001May5.html -Declan *********** From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeksat_private> To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private>, politechat_private Cc: emcat_private Subject: RE: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the N et Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:41:14 -0700 Are you just a total fucking idiot, Eric, or do you just play one on the Net? Regardless of horrendous events at the hands of our own government law enforcement agencies, McVeigh's actions go beyond the pale. This pathetic bag of shit didn't have the balls or intelligence to carry out a strategic attack so he had to result to throwing gasoline on a crowd and lighting a match. Some "statement." If he struck a military installation or blew away a group of agents there might be some slight room for debating that he was "retaliating" but he killed children. Kids, you fucking moron, he killed KIDS. McVeigh isn't an "Army of One" he's common, scum of the earth dirtbag criminal material. No more, possibly less. *********** From: "Thomas Leavitt" <thomasleavittat_private> To: declanat_private Cc: emcat_private Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the Net Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 13:19:29 -0700 Declan, His method of action was inexecusable, but the points made here by McVeigh are razor sharp: our government's actions abroad are often as or more inexecusable that the Murrah bombing the "militarization" of civilian law enforcement officers is quite disturbing... this tendency can be observed in both federal and local agencies; we, the citizens, are not "the enemy", but our law enforcement officers are being trained to think that way. from what I heard in an NPR interview with the author of "Killing Pablo", our government engaged in promoting and assisting mass extra-judicial executions in Columbia, and U.S. personell, both civilian and military, co-ordinated quite closely with the locals who pulled the trigger (and likely did more than that, we will probably never know) - that this happened, and moreover, that it will probably go unremarked upon and undebated, is terribly threatening to the vitality of American democracy. It sets a precedent, and a base level for what is considered acceptable behavior by law enforcement, that endangers every right granted us in the U.S. Constitution. i have heard, directly from someone involved, that the U.S. sent special forces personell into El Salvador in the 1980s to assassinate local elected officials viewed a sympathetic to the FMLN (press members I contacted after hearing this said, "yes, we know about it, but we can't get anyone to say anything on the record, so we are not running the story"). we hypocritically demand that the world conform to rules that we ourselves do not choose to follow, this undermines the credibility any statements made by Americans, both as members of the government, and private citizens, regarding human rights abuses abroad - and moreover, at home: hypocrisy is terribly corrosive to credibility. *** in my view, war and random violence is not an acceptable means of executing policy, either by individuals or groups (be they governments, or not) i oppose capital punishment - McVeigh should be imprisoned for the rest of his life, for violating the social contract and metaphorically speaking, putting his fist in the face of many people who had little or nothing to do with this dispute - your right to your freedom extends right up to the point of my nose if he has something to say, we should hear it, because a dialogue on the issue he raises would be more than worthwhile... if the establishment fears that he will somehow become a spokesman and a rallying point for those opposed to the policies outlined in his statement below, that is even more of a reason to have him speak and have his views countered and dissected in a public forum. I believe, ultimately, that the result will be an accounting that properly stigmatizes him for mass murder, repudiates the methods he choose to address these issues, and separates the man from the message: I feel perfectly comfortable stating that I agree with many of the concerns he outlines, without feeling that by doing so, I endorse or validate his methods and/or his overall belief system. Regards, Thomas Leavitt *********** Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 14:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles <questerat_private> To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> cc: politechat_private, emcat_private Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the Net > ----- Forwarded message from Eric Cordian <emcat_private> ----- > > As Gore Vidal said, "This guy's got a case." Too bad he's being spun by > the Federal propaganda machine as some sort of rabid terrorist. He _is_ a rabid terrorist. As are those who perpetrated the atrocities he rebels against. The answer to terrorism is not more terrorism -- fortunately, because governments and corporations can do it far more effectively than isolated individuals like McVeigh. - Charles - *********** From: "Duplantis, Ron" <Ron.Duplantisat_private> To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private> Subject: RE: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the N et Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 12:52:51 -0700 RE: Mr. McVeigh's "own" words and Mr. Cordian's take on them ... First an item of skepticism. Apparently, the UK media anglicized McVeigh's "own" words by spelling terms like "behaviour, "centre" and "organisation" in the British fashion. I don't think those are actually McVeigh's spellings, and since those quotations were supposed to have been gleaned from a written document, there really is no excuse for failure to maintain McVeigh's "own" words. Wonder what else was changed? Just a thought... Second, Cordian blesses the "clinical detachment" that McVeigh applied to the bombing. That's sad in that Cordian, therefore, blesses the "collateral damage" concept attributed to McVeigh. I was never a soldier and don't claim to be a student of military strategy. But I doubt seriously whether the U.S. military would exercise the same kind of "clinical detachment" when deciding to bomb an installation in which 1) it knew there were numerous agencies that had nothing to do with the primary target(s) (in McVeigh's case, the ATF), and 2) such a huge "crop" of obviously innocent lives (especially children) were positioned dead center of the targeted location (in McVeigh's case, a daycare center). Third, Cordian agrees with two constructs which fail (miserably) any test of logic. 1. Whatever the perceived grievances might be, the comparison of the OK bombing with targeting foreign sites is absurd on its face. McVeigh writes: "Bombing the Murrah federal building was morally and strategically equivalent to the US hitting a government building in Serbia, Iraq, or other nations." Whatever the rationale for targeting a foreign site, one potential "weapon" that is **not** available to the military is the use of the working functions of the foreign government (if there are any) to produce the desired result. In other words, the U.S. military has no standing to formally petition a foreign government like the citizens of that country can. McVeigh was fortunate to have been born in a country whose government constitutionally contains arguably the most available tools for peacefully changing public policy -- elections, activism, office-seeking, free speech. The military does not have that option when dealing with aggravating foreign entities. 2. The argument that McVeigh makes concerning "federal actions [that] grew increasingly militaristic and violent," places that trend in a vacuum. It ignores the fact that the Feds (and one can see the same trend even on the state and local police level) have been reacting to "increasingly militaristic and violent" and marginalized extremist groups. For instance, the Los Angeles police department had no on-the-street capability of handling military-type criminals when those two suicidal bank robbers took over a neighborhood several years ago. The police were clearly out-gunned, and had to borrow assault type weapons from a local gun store to combat the pair. Now LAPD cruisers are equipped for such an eventuality. The same reaction has occurred on all levels of law enforcement. Fourth, Cordian buys into the silly concept that McVeigh's actions actually have had an effect on government function. McVeigh writes: "It was in this climate then, that I reached the decision to go on the offensive - to put a check on government abuse of power where others has failed in stopping the federal juggernaut run amok." "Put a check on government"! If this wasn't such a serious subject, it would be the best of jokes. Last time I looked at my copy of the U.S. Constitution, there were three branches that checked each other, and elections and trial juries and free speech that provided average citizens avenues into affecting how each branch checked the others. McVeigh putting "a check on government"? His actions ironically achieved just the opposite. Now government has even more reason to stand militaristically vigilant, and now with tacit public approval. And last, Cordian's attempt to resurrect McVeigh as a POW again escapes even an ethereal connection with logic. First, he calls McVeigh's impending execution a "murder." And then he writes: "Too bad he's being spun by the Federal propaganda machine as some sort of rabid terrorist. Isn't killing a disarmed POW a human rights violation? This principle should apply to an Army of One, just as it applies to an Army of Many." I guess one can imagine oneself as an army. McVeigh clearly does. None of that changes the true meaning of words. A terrorist is one who applies violent means when he perceives no other avenue. A cursory examination of the government of this country demonstrates that other avenues exist. Do things sometimes change slowly? Perhaps, but that goes to patience not whether or not grievance methodologies exist. McVeigh is a warped common criminal who clinically detached himself from the human race. He deserves the most extreme punishment for his actions. And those who would use such an extreme example of wayward Libertarianism to attack the sensibilities of peaceful average citizens, not to mention the science of logic, are either oddball opportunists or just plain dangerous. My two cents, Thanks, Ron Duplantis Huntington Beach, CA cajunincaat_private *********** Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 15:02:21 -0400 From: Julieryanat_private (Julie Ryan) Reply-To: julieryanat_private Organization: http://www.julieryan.com/ To: declanat_private Subject: Re: FC: Timothy McVeigh, muzzled by U.S. government, speaks via the Net Any authentication that this was actually written by McVeigh and not a different person trying to use McVeigh's name and plight as a platform? Let's review the bidding here: a Brit journalist claims to have been directed by McVeigh to contact an anonymous friend of McVeigh in order to get the real deal, previously unpublished explanations. The friend, who had carefully kept the secret for quite a long time now, then gives up the treasure to the Brit journalist, who then goes on to fame and glory after scooping the entire rest of the journalism world. Hmmm..... Funny how McVeigh uses the Brit spelling conventions (e.g., "rumours"). *********** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if it remains intact. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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