Previous Politech messages: "RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy!" http://www.politechbot.com/p-02987.html "John Gilmore on Ukraine doing the right thing, fighting RIAA" http://www.politechbot.com/p-02983.html "U.S. says Ukraine turns blind eye to piracy, levies tariffs" http://www.politechbot.com/p-02977.html And the Slashdot thread: http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/03/1621205.shtml ********** Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:29:05 -0500 To: declanat_private From: Esther Dyson <edysonat_private> Subject: Re: FC: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! Cc: politechat_private, JCabreraat_private, gnuat_private, farberat_private In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103173415.00aab410at_private> Let me weigh in here, too, please, more from the software than the content perspective. I am not normally an apologist for the RIAA, but I do support the *principle* of copyright even though the mechanisms of enforcement are sometimes overreaching. Cabrera/Turkewitz are correct in many respects. Aside from enriching the Ukrainian "mafia," a truly despicable bunch, many with links to government figures, lax copyright enforcement hinders the development of Ukraine's indigenous software and content creators. These developers would benefit from the Western price umbrella to work under as they build their own industry; they are eager to develop products and to get paid for their work. When I began traveling to the Soviet Union in 1989 and after, the naive view was that Microsoft et al. should help the poor Russians/Ukrainians by giving them free or cheap software, but the locals vigorously rejected that approach, which would have had the side-effect of rendering their own entrepreneurial efforts useless. You can argue about degrees and mechanisms, but free software is no help to developing economies that are struggling to productively exploit their own local IT talents. They want investment and paying customers, not charity (or piracy). As Turkewitz/Cabrera says, the targets of enforcement in this case are not small businesses using Western software to run their businesses (they mostly use 1C, anyway, which is a Russian small-business accounting package distributed, sold for a fair price and *supported* by a network of VARs throughout the region), but a crew of thugs crowding out honest entrepreneurs. Their presence deters not only software vendors but also software developers (local and foreign) who might otherwise hire Ukraine's talented programmers and give them a chance to make a decent living and contribute to their and the world's economy. Esther Dyson Always make new mistakes! chairman, EDventure Holdings writer, Release 3.0 (on Website below) edysonat_private 1 (212) 924-8800 -- fax 1 (212) 924-0240 104 Fifth Avenue (between 15th and 16th Streets; 20th floor) New York, NY 10011 USA http://www.edventure.com PC FORUM: 24 to 27 March 2002, Scottsdale (Phoenix), Arizona High-Tech Forum in Europe: November 2002, Berlin ********** Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 05:30:58 -0500 (EST) From: Edward Jahn <ej71at_private> To: gnuat_private cc: declanat_private, politechat_private Subject: response to politechbot post John, As a musician with music released on CD and vinyl I have to wholeheartedly agree with your position concerning the RIAA and the tariffs that the U.S. has apparently imposed in response to the Ukrainian position. I think that Declan would sympathize with my view that I would much sooner have my own music "pirated" (translation: shared with as many people as possible) than see a police state imposed in the form of intrusive surveillance and technological limitations hardwired into consumer electronics. Are the profits of the content industry really more important than basic freedoms and the tenets of this country's constitution? The recording industry has a legacy of ripping off the artists that supply the content for the recording mediums that they rely on. Any artist who has questioned the $18 price tag on a CD compared with the stingy royalties they receive for that same CD is aware of the greed that motivates this industry. I want to point out the business model that I have always thought demonstrated a high level of artistic integrity, that could coexist with napster and other file sharing and copying, but would also serve to flush out a high proportion of "low integrity" art: THE GRATEFUL DEAD and PHISH. While I am far from a "head" I have an incredible amount of respect for these two groups because they encouraged their fans to record and distribute their live recordings without restrictions. Why were they able to do this and still survive as artists? Because they are true performers who could draw a large audience wherever they went and make their shows different every time. Phish hardly generated any income from record sales; they made their money from touring and merchandise. In 1994 I was told that Phish grossed ten million dollars in concert ticket sales that year. Let's look at the opposite situation in the music world: the manufactured pop star. There is now signal processing technology available that can correct the pitch of a vocalist within a specified threshold. In other words, someone who can't really hold their pitch and might not otherwise be considered to be a proficient vocalist can now appear on an album and fool the consumer into thinking that they have talent. When this undoubtedly sexy-looking performer appears on stage in front of thousands they might even be lipsyncing to a pre-recorded track that originated in a studio using the aforementioned processing gear. Computer recording and sequencing has largely replaced studio musicianship, so the budget has been significantly lowered. As far as the fans are concerned this "artist" is a perfect, pop GOD or GODDESS. When you consider that the album sells for $17.99 at Tower Records and has two or three four minute songs that are even bearable to listen to, the deception begins to emerge. Is it any wonder why millions of songs were downloaded through Napster with very little guilt on the part of the "pirates"? Every single day I can take a walk through the streets of Manhattan and find street vendors selling piles of records, tapes, and CD's for one or two dollars. There is so much garbage in the record stores that it inevitably ends up on the streets as junk. I think it's time for a change to hit the industry much like a forest fire cleans out the weeds, undergrowth, and sickly trees but leaves the old growth standing. I am simply not willing to sacrifice my freedom to distribute binary information wherever and whenever I want, for no cost, to protect a scam that the record industry has perpetuated for far too long. I'm afraid, however, that there is only one way to fight what might appear to be inevitable: it's time to boycott pre-recorded content and participate in civil disobedience by distributing as much of it as possible in a decentralized manner. And while you're at it, why don't you spread some of my music around (www.metaprofessor.com). The digital information revolution can serve to raise the integrity and quality of many forms of music and visual art through competition. It seems to me that it's my ability to compete with the major labels by harnessing the internet that has them deathly afraid for their jobs. ...and that's the end of my late night rant. I just had to get that out! one final thing: am I writing to John Gilmore the jazz guitarist who has played with Steve Coleman? If so, I have even more respect for your viewpoint. Cheers and all the best, Edward ********** To: declanat_private cc: jcabreraat_private Subject: re: Ukranian piracy Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:12:36 -0500 From: Piotr Mitros <pmitrosat_private> >Gilmore suggests that sanctions were imposed because the Ukrainians >failed to adopt an "optical media licensing regime." The reality is >that while the vote on this licensing regime may have been the final >act precipitating the introduction of sanctions, the sanctions were >not introduced because of the Rada's rejection of the bill, but >because the Government of Ukraine had violated nearly every provision >of a US-Ukraine agreement reached in June of 2000 under which it >committed to take a number of steps to address runaway pirate >production. You would do well to back this up with some evidence. Quite frankly, I've seen enough lies out of the content industry that I have a difficult time believing statements like this at face value, and I would say I'm actually one of the less hostile people in the audience to which you're writing. If you can document what else the Rada has failed to do or should have done, your arguments would be much stronger. I would support economic sanctions against massive anticopyright violations of the sort that I have seen in Eastern Europe. However, it is one thing to expect a country to enforce basic copyright laws. It is quite another to push our own draconian standards of how they should do so onto foreign nations, as seem to be developing a habit of doing. - Piotr ********** Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:58:18 -0800 From: David Brownell <david-bat_private> Subject: Re: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! To: declanat_private, politechat_private Cc: JCabreraat_private, gnuat_private Message-id: <0c7101c194b2$85226d40$6800000aat_private> > If Gilmore truly wants to promote the overthrow of oppression, he > should support measures designed to introduce the rule of law and to create > a fair playing field where the old guard is not in control. Sadly, he > laments such measures. Someone needs to point out to this guy that one of the problems is that the "old guard" (in the US, the RIAA) is in fact using such measures to tilt the playing field in their favor. We have pot calling kettle black, in at least this case. The problem with "rule of law" in such cases is that the plutocracy known as "the United States of America" is, well, oppressing its citizens by systematically depriving them of various rights ... not limited to eliminating the "fair use" and "limited span" parts of the copyright bargain, or reducing the already minimal diversity seen in popular media culture. Since we live in a plutocracy (here in the US) it's been ineffective to try to fix "the rule of law", itself an instrument of such oppression by virtue of disproportionate corporate influence on lawmaking and other government policies. - Dave ********** Subject: Re: FC: John Gilmore on Ukraine doing the right thing, fighting RIAA Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:57:02 -0800 From: David Lawrence <david@online-today.com> To: "Declan McCullagh" <declanat_private> On or about 1/3/02 7:31 AM, a certain Declan McCullagh [declanat_private] wrote: > * close down and prosecute printing plants that have been involved in > high volume printing > * seize and destroy all private property accused of copyright violation > * carry out regular and unannounced inspections of printers > * introduce and enforce strict paper production control > regulations, includling the compulsory use of identification > watermarks in the printing machinery, and control of trade in > printers and blank paper > * introduce new 'protection' laws for foreign record companies, > and appropriate criminal penalties for copyright "and related > rights" infringement > And if they were pirating books instead of CDs, what would be wrong with the above points? I'm not sure I follow. >Reader, in case you didn't know, every color Xerox machine and color >laser printer prints the serial number of the machine on every page >they produce, covertly hidden in the output, under a long-standing >private "arrangement" with the US Treasury Department. I have been >unable to confirm whether this is also true of black-and-white xerox >machines. What in the HELL is he smoking? This is laughable. Are we just being goaded by someone who is a conspiracy theorist? David ....................................................... : [xmradio CH 130 | radio.com] = [06a-09a ET M-F] : David Lawrence : [online-tonight.com] = [10p-01a ET M-S] : v:800-396-6546 : [netmusiccountdown.com] = [check listings] : f:509-479-6695 :.....................................................:................. [http://www0.mercurycenter.com/justgo/columnists/ear/docs/ear060900.htm] ------------------------- ---------------------------- --------------- [http://online-tonight.com http://netmusiccountdown.com http://cnet.com] ********** From: "Vincent Penquerc'h" <Vincent.Penquerchat_private> To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private> Subject: RE: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:45:38 -0000 Hi Declan, This is not directly related to Neil Turkewitz' answer, but I would like to know where RIAA and such organizations put the freedom of people to create, record, and distribute their own work independantly. The advent of mandatory copy protection, and the omission of quality output for recording on many packages forces one to buy so-called "professional" hardware (that is, uncrippled hardware at a much higher price that is not fundamentally different from the base one). This is a formidable deterrent to amateur production. I will be objected that it is not that bad, that this is still possible. Fair enough, but I do not think that this will stop here. Music pirates (and people stealing anything for that matter) will exploit whatever possibility they can get, so every "hole" must be patched in order for, say, music piracy to start to be hindered. This will also patch the last possibility for amateur people to create and distribute their own work easily. How long before you have to apply to RIAA to have a license to buy even this expensive hardware ? With associated background checks, database filing, etc ? Because as we all know, commercial pirates won't be stopped by having to shell out more money for uncrippled hardware. This will stop only kids doing a copy for their friend. And amateur musicians. Which are not really musicians, since they're not affiliated to RIAA. If that's not a grab for a monopoly in music creation, tell me what is. Welcome to the world of officially approved music and art. -- Vincent Penquerc'h ********** From: "Ben" <bmwat_private> To: <declanat_private> Cc: <JCabreraat_private> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103173415.00aab410at_private> Subject: Re: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:32:09 -0500 MY favorite tidbit from the Slashdot version of the story is this quote..... "With China, we don't mind granting full trading rights. If the Chinese government practices human rights abuses against their own citizens, it's their own internal business. But if some foreign country's citizens cause a theoretical loss to a U.S. company, then that's an entirely different matter." ********** From: "RV Head" <4whpat_private> To: <declanat_private> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103173415.00aab410at_private> Subject: Re: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:31:54 -0500 Aww, shucks - My heart bleeds for them, the poor little RIAA! Why, I think the mere sacrifice of my supposed right to make so-called "fair-use" of items I've bought^H^H^H^H^H^H licensed is scant price indeed, since the alternative is to hand the keys to the kingdom to the Russian Mafia! (Why didn't the American press explain this to us sooner?) ********** From: terry.sat_private To: cuckoosnestat_private Cc: declanat_private Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:33:27 -0500 Subject: Re: [cuckoosnest] Re: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! On Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:31:54 -0500 "RV Head" <4whpat_private> writes: > Aww, shucks - My heart bleeds for them, the poor little RIAA! Why, I > think > the mere sacrifice of my supposed right to make so-called "fair-use" > of items I've bought^H^H^H^H^H^H licensed is scant price indeed, since > the alternative is to hand the keys to the kingdom to the Russian Mafia! > > (Why didn't the American press explain this to us sooner?) Because as you doubtless know, it's not that simple. You can do anything you want with the item you bought, physical media. You only licensed its useful contents. You do of course have the Fair Use right per our courts to make copies for certain uses, like use in your car. That of course is why the RIAA and MPAA had to get so creative finding ways of teaming up with cable TV MSO's, cel phone companies wanting to market an illusion of privacy, satellite TV operators, et al, and crafting laws banning decryption of so much as ability to easily decrypt. That obviously is about an entirely different issue than violating your Fair Use rights, or defaulting on their license obligations to deliver usable content to you. So long as Jack Valenti remains an effective teller of supposed old Texas stories, RIAA is subject only to ridicule in South Park, not effective consumer protection law. A corrolary the media worked even harder to bring to our attention is how police (staties, large cities, and many Feds) play out this law to void accountability to citizens. Scanners were a nuisance, as some departments got in lots of trouble and even lost civil rights suits based on citizen monitoring or recording. With these new laws to protect us, cops can arrest anyone who watches them too closely, or gathers evidence of when, how, and why they're crooks. Short of really expensive commercial test equipment, they even banned import or sales of suitable radios, such that one has to smuggle a low 4 figure price scanner in from Europe to listen to what our guv'mint thugs are up to. Of course, this also helps those cops who have traffic accidents in the adjacent town, when they cross the street outside their jurisdiction going to McDonalds or the donut shop. That used to be very embarassing when anyone in town could hear them call for help, and request supervisors since a cop had an accident. Now, with the help of Jack Valenti, Sony, BMI, and MPAA, cops can arrest anyone who catches them sneaking an out of town donut run and damaging city property in the process, as well as when they violate the civil rights of skyclad males by arrests, and of skyclad females by calling fellow cops to bring binoculars. Terry ********** Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:10:02 -0500 To: declanat_private From: "James M. Ray" <jray@free-market.net> Subject: Re: FC: RIAA replies to John Gilmore on Ukraine: Don't cheer piracy! Cc: politechat_private, JCabreraat_private, gnuat_private At 5:42 PM -0500 1/3/02, Declan McCullagh wrote: ... >Russia. If Gilmore truly wants to promote the overthrow of oppression, he >should support measures designed to introduce the rule of law and to create >a fair playing field where the old guard is not in control. Sadly, he >laments such measures. ... Wait a second, am I supposed to believe that the RIAA does not comprise music's "old guard" intent on control over convenience? Sadly, both work and personal experience(s) suggest otherwise, but hope springs eternal... JMR Regards, James M. Ray ********** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Jan 04 2002 - 08:45:59 PST