--- From: "Harvey A. Silverglate" <hasat_private> To: <declanat_private> Subject: RE: Brad Templeton on DOJ "TIPS" informant plan: Operation TIPS-TIPS Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:58:47 -0400 Declan I find Brad Templeton's proposal for dealing with the DOJ "TIPS" program ingenious, even patriotic. But it has one flaw. The Ashcroft DOJ, and the Rehnquist Supreme Court, would likely consider such a response to be "obstruction of justice" or worse. After all, Ashcroft had the nerve to tell the Senate and the American people that civil libertarians' criticism of the Administration's anti-terrorism program, with "phantoms of lost liberty," gives aid to the enemy -- a virtual accusation of treason. Do not think I'm saying this in jest. The DOJ, or individual federal agents or prosecutors, have in the past deemed it to be "obstruction of justice" for a bank to tell a customer that his/her records have been subpoenaed, or for a citizen to warn another citizen that a "bug" has been installed, or even for someone to tear-out and destroy a bug planted in his own house or car! Former CIA agents have been accused of this-and-that for being whistleblowers. It is not so easy, nor risk-free, for citizens to fight back. That's all part of the new official terror being invoked in order to fight terror. Harvey Silverglate --- From: "Dan Alban" <dalbanat_private> To: <declanat_private> Cc: <bradat_private> Subject: RE: Brad Templeton on DOJ "TIPS" informant plan: Operation TIPS-TIPS Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:09:40 -0400 Great suggestion! I now have just such a sign on my office door. It reads: NO TIPS INFORMANTS permitted in this office If you are a TIPS informant, please leave immediately and re-evaluate your life. Cheers, Dan Alban Program Director Institute for Humane Studies www.theIHS.org Direct line: (703) 993-4947 Fax: (703) 993-4890 --- To: declanat_private Cc: bradat_private Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:12:25 -0400 Subject: Re: FC: Brad Templeton on DOJ "TIPS" informant plan: Operation TIPS-TIPS > From: Brad Templeton <bradat_private> > To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> > We just need operation TIPS-TIPS. A network of people to spot and identify > possible TIPSters, to put up lists of their names, routes and addresses, > and possibly to put chalk marks on their vehicles, homes and even clothes > so we can spot them coming, avoid socializing with them, refuse them > entry onto our land. The old "Kilroy" inside a modern international slashed circle would do, though the tatoos on their foreheads might best be in the color of a scarlet letter. > Perhaps like "No Solicitors" or gates could have signs > saying "No TIPS informants" If the power company wants to read my > meter, they should send a non-informant. And we could trust the same politicians and judges soliciting these crooks and unethical predators to violate our 4th Am. rights to enforce laws making it criminal trespass or worse when they spy on us, rather than mandate employers not fire them as incapable of full job performance as outside salespeople, repair persons, delivery persons for UPS or competitors, etc., when many of us post notices making it criminal for them to enter our properties? Terry --- Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:35:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Phil Kos To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Brad Templeton on DOJ "TIPS" informant plan: Operation TIPS-TIPS [Actually a general comment/thought on the TIPS program in the context of PATRIOT. Forward to the list if you want, but if so please omit my email address.] One of the provisions of PATRIOT, as I recall, was special criminal status for terrorist hoaxes. This new TIPS program seems to opening the door to lots of false leads and reports, which might in some cases amount to hoaxes under PATRIOT. Do you (or does anyone on this list) happen to know if there's anything that would provide a special immunity for registered TIPS stoolies from charges of fomenting a terrorism hoax? (I'm thinking along the lines of the privacy/immunity protections for businesses in the proposed "infrastructure" vulnerability reporting program.) Some special clause in PATRIOT, perhaps? Because if there isn't, the DoJ/FEMA/whoever may be shooting themselves in the foot with this thing; after a couple of high-profile prosecutions of bogus "informants," the chilling effect on the rest of the TIPS roster would be significant. Of course, I'm not trying to suggest that any of this Executive Branch posturing is genuinely intended to make the public more secure... - phil ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon Jul 22 2002 - 00:51:02 PDT