FC: More on Ad Council ads, librarians, and anarchist Chuck0

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Fri Aug 09 2002 - 07:15:41 PDT

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    Previous Politech message:
    http://www.politechbot.com/p-03863.html
    
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    Subject: RE: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good)
    Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:51:33 -0500
    From: "Connie Jo Ozinga" <cjoat_private>
    To: <declanat_private>
    
    Those of us in the library community find the pro-liberty ad in which the 
    young man is approached by unidentified security types after asking for 
    particular library book interesting, particularly in light of the fact that 
    the Patriot's Act allows the FBI to access any library records on demand 
    (books checked out, computer sites visited...), AND forbids library 
    employees from telling anyone that such information has been provided in 
    response to the demands.
    
    I find this far more chilling that the unlikely future projected in the ad.
    
    ¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤
    Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
    Elkhart Public Library  Elkhart, Indiana
    ¤º°`°º¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸
    
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    From: [deleted]
    To: "'declanat_private'" <declanat_private>
    Subject: RE: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads:
      "Incredibly hypocritic al!"
    Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:46:29 -0400
    
    The ads (most of them) are excellent.
    
    Someone tell Chuck that the point is to persuade people that it is a bad 
    thing to have feds snoop in libraries, arrest people for the wrong reading 
    material, and generally suppress speech.  Then maybe it will be easier to 
    stop existing abuses.
    
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    Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:38:27 -0400
    From: "Paul Levy" <PLEVYat_private>
    To: <politechat_private>, <chuckat_private>, <declanat_private>
    Subject: "Incredibly hypocritical!"
    
    Why consider them hypocritical?  Why not think of them as timely warnings!
    
    Paul Alan Levy
    Public Citizen Litigation Group
    1600 - 20th Street, N.W.
    Washington, D.C. 20009
    (202) 588-1000
    http://www.citizen.org/litigation/litigation.html
    
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    Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:44:31 -0500
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly 
    hypocritical!"
    From: Aaron Swartz <meat_private>
    To: chuckat_private, declanat_private
    
    On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
    >These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional
    >depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are
    >incredibly hypocritical!
    
    I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US was 
    turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and "What if 
    America wasn't America?"
    
    -- 
    Aaron Swartz [http://www.aaronsw.com] I am large, I contain multitudes.
    
    ---
    
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
             hypocritical!" (CONFIDENTIAL)
    From: Creede Lambard
    To: declanat_private
    Date: 08 Aug 2002 10:56:18 -0700
    
    (If you decide to print this please don't use my email address. Thank
    you.)
    
    Declan, I'm sure I'm not the first person to point out that perhaps
    Chuck0 has missed the point of the Ad Council campaign. It looked to me
    like the ads were painting a picture of what life could be like in the
    United States for the average citizen if some of the laws Congress is
    now considering pass.
    
    He does have a point that this happens already with certain reading
    materials. However, the problem is more widespread than suburban youth
    reading anarchist samizdat as they wait to board a plane. Other
    literature seems to also be grounds for arrest, or at least suspicion,
    in this day and age. The Koran comes immediately to mind.
    
    I interpreted these ads as an attempt to make Joe and Jane Average
    American think of what might happen if we really do lock down this
    country. If the make a few people reconsider those "incredibly
    hypocritical" views Chuck0 perceives, perhaps they're worth the effort.
    
    ---
    
    From: schewat_private (Steve Chew)
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
    To: declanat_private
    Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:56:25 -0400 (EDT)
    
             I have to wonder whether Chuck0 saw a different version of the ads.
    I saw the "Library" one the other day on TV and watched it again on the
    Ad Council site (http://www.adcouncil.org/campaigns/campaign_for_freedom/).
             It was completely obvious that all of the ads were about the U.S.,
    and what could happen if people do not, as the ad said, cherish freedom
    and protect it.  The ads were not "fictional depictions of life in a country
    other than the U.S."  While Chuck0 has a point that these things have been
    happening to a limited extent already that does not detract from the value
    of an ad which points out these problems.  If people take these ads to
    heart then they will begin to see when the government acts the opposite
    way.
             Personally, I found the "Library" ad to be chilling and it may be
    effective enough to make a few people think.  I hope they make more.
    
                                     Steve
    
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:41:41 -0400
    From: Nick Bretagna <onemugat_private>
    Reply-To: afn41391at_private
    To: chuckat_private
    CC: declanat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
      hypocritical!"
    
    Declan McCullagh wrote:
    >Chuck is a reasonably prominent anarchist in the Washington DC area:
    >http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=chuck0
    >
    >Previous Politech message:
    >http://www.politechbot.com/p-03859.html
    >
    
    
    OK, is the Ad Council a government body? It appeared to me that it was 
    privately funded. The complaints Chuck has appear to be against the 
    government, and I fully concur, they are good ones. ...But unless the Ad 
    Council is a government body, this stuff is hardly hypocritical. I'm sure 
    the government has some input into these things, yeah, but by all signs, 
    they aren't a government agency.
    
    These ads, if anything, might at least get people to thinking about those 
    things, something the sheeple have gotten quite complacent about in the 
    last 20+ years.
    
    Whereas it used to be unthinkable that Soviet-style informants would be 
    suggested, we now have TIPS, and it's being advocated by the Teamsters, no 
    less.
    
    Children are turning in their parents for drug use, your bank accounts are 
    being routinely monitored, and you can have any and all your property 
    seized if they have any evidence at all of association with the production 
    and distribution of drugs or just about anything "they" don't like.
    
    I expect pretty soon three  parking tickets  will constitute racketeering 
    under the RICO statutes...
    
    ... Oh, and, did I mention that "Your Identity Papers, Please?" is 
    threatening to become an American standard?
    
    All this is because of sheeplike acquiescence to government intrusions. I 
    seriously doubt if these ads will ever be seen by most people -- certainly 
    they will have far less prominance than the bullshit "Earthshare" ones that 
    AC runs... but I certainly laud ANYTHING that makes even a few of the sheep 
    pull their noses out of the feedbags and go, "HEY! That's baaaaaaaad...!".
    
    ...and no, I don't belong to any militias, nor do I own any guns. You don't 
    have to be a froth-at-the-mouth nutball to see undesirable trends, 
    especially not ones as far advanced as these.
    :-/
    
    "There is no week, nor day, nor hour, when tyranny may not enter upon this 
    country, if the people lose their supreme confidence in themselves -  and 
    lose their roughness and spirit of defiance."
      - Walt Whitman -
    -- 
    ------- --------- ------- -------- ------- ------- -------
    Nicholas Bretagna II
    mailto:afn41391at_private
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:53:25 -0400
    From: Chuck Munson <chuckat_private>
    To: Aaron Swartz <meat_private>
    Cc: declanat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
      hypocritical!"
    
    Aaron Swartz wrote:
     >
     > On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
     > > These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional
     > > depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are
     > > incredibly hypocritical!
     >
     > I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US
     > was turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and
     > "What if America wasn't America?"
    
    Well, I'm kind of wondering that myself. Are these PSAs a warning about
    Ashcroft's America?
    
    << Chuck0 >>
    
    Personal homepage        ->
    http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html
    Infoshop.org             -> http://www.infoshop.org/
    Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/
    Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/
    Anarchy: AJODA           -> http://www.anarchymag.org/
    MutualAid.org            -> http://www.mutualaid.org/
    Factsheet 5              -> http://www.factsheet5.org/
    AIM: AgentHelloKitty
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 17:42:33 -0400
    From: Chuck Munson <chuckat_private>
    Cc: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
      hypocritical!"
     >
     >
     > I think they're being subversive -- get your digs in at Ashcroft/PATRIOT
     > -- not hypocritical.
     >
    
    Yes, after exchanging several emails today with other folks, I'm starting
    to see this.
    
    I'll have to watch the other PSAs.
    
    << Chuck0 >>
    
    Personal homepage        ->
    http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html
    Infoshop.org             -> http://www.infoshop.org/
    Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/
    Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/
    Anarchy: AJODA           -> http://www.anarchymag.org/
    MutualAid.org            -> http://www.mutualaid.org/
    Factsheet 5              -> http://www.factsheet5.org/
    AIM: AgentHelloKitty
    
    ----
    
    Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:09:10 -0700
    From: David Alban <extasiaat_private>
    To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly 
    hypocritical!"
    
    At 2002/08/08/12:05 -0400 Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> wrote:
     > Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:51:07 -0400
     > From: Chuck Munson <chuckat_private>
     > Subject: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good)
    
     > For example, the "Library" PSA shows a young guy asking for a book from a
     > librarian, who informs him that it is no longer available and then asks
     > him why he wants to read it. They pan the library and all these government
     > agents pop out of hiding.
    
    They say truth is stranger than fiction...
    
    On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:16:29 -0400, Declan sent to politech the
    following URL:
    
       http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml
    
    about a young man pulled out of a line in an airport and denied
    permission to board his flight because of a book he was reading.
    
       On the cover of the book, Hayduke Lives! by Edward Abbey, is an
       illustration of a mans hand holding several sticks of dynamite. The 1991
       novel is about a radical environmentalist, George Washington Hayduke
       III, who blows up bridges, burns tractors and sabotages other projects
       he believes are destroying the beautiful Southwest landscape.
    
       "For the first time, it occurred to me the book may be a problem,"
       Godfrey [the young man in the airport line] recalls.
    
       He proceeded through the security checkpoint and sat down to read near
       his boarding gate. About 10 minutes had passed when a National Guardsman
       approached Godfrey.
    
       "He told me to step aside," Godfrey says. "Then he took my book and
       asked me why I was reading it."
    
       Within minutes, Godfrey says, Philadelphia Police officers, Pennsylvania
       State Troopers and airport security officials joined the National
       Guardsman. About 10 to 12 people examined the novel for 45 minutes,
       scratching out notes the entire time. They also questioned Godfrey about
       the purpose of his trip to Phoenix.
    
    David
    -- 
    Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
    
    
    
    
    
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