[I got scores of responses from list members -- thanks! Below is a representative sample. --Declan] --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:54:51 -0800 To: declanat_private From: Margie Wylie <margie.wylieat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? >the State >or Georgia plans to fingerprint everyone in the state who applies for a >drivers licenses. I thought that only criminals and people who work in >high security jobs got fingerprinted. Is Georgia the first state to do >this kind of thing? Hardly. The State of California has been fingerprinting drivers for years now. I'm not exactly sure how many, but at least four in my personal experience. According to the AAMVA another 8 states plus DC use biometric identifiers on their licenses. ============================================================ / Margie Wylie / +1 415.647.5287 Phone / / National Correspondent / +1 415.637.5003 Cell / / Newhouse News Service / +1 415.647.5297 Fax / / http://www.newhouse.com / cyberspace and technology beat / =========================================================== What have I written lately? http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=%22margie+wylie%22 --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:48:14 -0500 To: declanat_private From: James Moyer <jamesat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Declan, Georgia has fingerprinted for driver's licenses since 1996. They were the last state to successfully pass a law requiring mandatory fingerprinting--every legislature session since then has had some sorta repeal effort, which would be killed by Tom Murphy, the omnipotent speaker of the House...who didn't get reelected this year. We shall see what happens as a result. Georgia used to be a Polaroid state, so this press release is them moving to Viisage. West Virginia has optional fingerprinting, and I heard a recent report that Arkansas has optional fingerprinting too...but I haven't been able to confirm it California had optional fingerprinting in 1977, mandatory since 1982 (California is great to talk about. During those five years of optional fingerprinting, the DMV admitted, in a Cali. Supreme Court Case, that they would often lift the fingerprints of application forms from those who declined to be fingerprinted. That was a whole new level of brazeness that I didn't think was possible. Recently the California DMV had to admit that while they did have 30 million fingerprints on file, the quality isn't good enough for comparisons, which makes you wonder what good you achieve in collecting them.) Texas has had mandatory fingerprinting since 1969, though they started requiring it for all license transactions in 1996, on digital scanning equipment, which is for whatever reason when people actually got pissy about it Colorado has fingerprinting, but gosh, I have no idea when it started Hawaii does too...and I've found old Hawaii licenses on ebay with fingerprints on them before Hawaii was even a state. I worked with the Virginia Taxpayer's Association, and killed fingerprinting in that state this year. I know of no other state that tried to impliement mandatory license fingerprinting since Georgia. James --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:26:16 -0500 From: "SIXIT Consulting" <no.spamat_private> To: declanat_private Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Hi Declan, As a Georgia resident, I've been required for a few years now to have a fingerprint on file. There is a group dedicated to eradicating the law, but right now it is firmly entrenched despite the general dislike of the law by the residents. There was a website <http://www.fingerprintsayno.com/>, which is offline and the domain expired on the 9th of November. Here is another website dedicated to the issue: <http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml>. Atlanta InfoGuide also has a page dedicated to the issue at <http://www.atlantainfoguide.com/repeal/>. Please note that since the issue is now nearly five years (or is it six?) old, some of the links from each page do not work anymore. Sincerely, Robert Reese~ SIXIT Consulting Emerson, Georgia --- From: "Richard M. Smith" <rmsat_private> To: "'J.D. Abolins'" <jda-irat_private>, "'Declan McCullagh'" <declanat_private> Cc: "'Scott McDonald'" <mcdonaldsat_private> Subject: RE: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:43:22 -0500 Someone else sent me this interesting chart for state drivers licenses which shows which states require fingerprints: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page4/fp-04-page4-winners-losers.h tml What I am also wondering about is how many states are using Livescan systems which end up creating fingerprint databases that are easy to search. Richard --- From: "Scott McDonald" <scottm2at_private> To: "Richard M. Smith" <rmsat_private>, "'J.D. Abolins'" <jda-irat_private>, "'Declan McCullagh'" <declanat_private> Cc: "'Scott McDonald'" <mcdonaldsat_private> Subject: RE: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 19:23:37 -0600 J.D., You probably realized that the web page mentioned below by Richard is the one I compiled. Although I have not updated it in a while, it is still pretty much accurate with regard to states that collect fingerprints and SSNs. With regard to Georgia, of course they have been requiring fingerprints from all license applicants for over five years now. We, along with some Georgia residents and one of the State House members, waged war to get the practice stopped. The effort was almost successful, but the governor backed out on his word to discontinue the practice. I did not see the Visage post mentioned below. I can only assume that it concerns a new type of fingerprint reader such as "live scan" which, I presume, Georgia is considering purchasing (or has already purchased) to replace their "paper-n-ink" system now in place. Scott --- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:56:25 -0500 To: rmsat_private From: Katherine Albrecht <kmaat_private> Subject: Re: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Cc: declanat_private Hi, Richard and Declan: Each state sets its own requirements for documentation to obtain a drivers license (at least for now). In the past, a birth certificate was considered adequate proof of identity in most states. Now several states, including California, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Texas, and West Virginia require a fingerprint for the "privilege" of driving. In addition, most states now ask for a social security number. For a listing of drivers license requirements in all 50 states (including whether or not they require fingerprint and/or social security number, utilize a mag stripe, barcode, and /or digital photograph) see Scott McDonald's page at: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml. Scott McDonald has mounted a court challenge in Alabama based on his religious objection to the mandatory use of social security numbers to obtain a drivers license. His efforts and those of others are detailed on his "Fight the Fingerprint" website at http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml. In freedom, Katherine Albrecht CASPIAN - Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering http://www.nocards.org --- From: "INTI INTERNATIONAL" <76867at_private> To: declanat_private Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:31:57 -0500 Declan -- Georgia has been fingerprinting all drivers for nearly four years now. There was a heated -- but fruitleess -- opposition effort when the former governer (now U.S. Senator) Zell Miller proposed it, and now they routinely scan your finger and imbed it in code on the back of the license. (The current governor, Roy Barnes -- who lost to a Republican two weeks ago -- also opposed it, but he dropped his opposition once he gained the governor's seat.) The state DMV lobbied fiercely for this, and it's probably coming your way, too. Might even be part of that cool new Ministry of Homeland Defense. -- Cheers, Greg Land --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 11:50:28 -0600 (CST) From: Joel Schopp <spiffyat_private> To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? The state of Texas has required thumbprints for drivers licenses for years. They also keep a digital picture, social security number, address, etc in their database. And if you think that all Texas law enforcement officers are above reproach you can just look at the Aug 18th arrrest of 273 innocent people in Houston as a counterexample. --- From: "Johnathan James" <jjamesat_private> To: <declanat_private> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021119112154.021f7c90at_private> Subject: Re: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:58:03 -0700 Declan, I wrote to you earlier saying that the state of Colorado already requires that you be fingerprinted in order to get a drivers license. At the time I only had my experiecne to vouch for that assertion, but I found the Colorado state Drivers Handbook on the web and it verifies it. See: http://www.mv.state.co.us/formspdf/drvrbook.pdf and check page 3, at the bottom under requirements "To Apply for a License or Instruction Permit...". Point 5 reads: "... 5. Be fingerprinted (C.R.S. 42-2-107) and photographed. (C.R.S. 42-2-114.) ...." Johnathan --- From: "fnord" <fnordat_private> To: <declanat_private> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021119112154.021f7c90at_private> Subject: Re: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:29:19 -0500 Viisage has been pursuing these kinds of state contracts as a core part of their business model. Georgia is not the first state to consider such a plan. Viisage was working on such plans in 17 states as of May of this year, and I do not have updated information since then, but this Georgia information seems to point to further inroads being made. Depending on the state, it appears that some drivers licenses will hold fingerprints and other biometric data, while some states, like Connecticut (http://www.biometritech.com/features/laurapop4.htm), will be adding facial recognition as well. I ran out and renewed my license as soon as I read this story, both to see what the employees at the DMV knew about it (absolutely nothing) and to get a new license before the plan went into effect. With this and the new TIA database, US citizens are no longer "Innocent until proven guilty," but "Under investigation until death." John Stotler http://www.libertylost.org --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 09:52:28 -0800 Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? From: Ian Stoba <ianat_private> To: declanat_private Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit California requires a thumbprint as part of a driver license (their preferred term) application: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm --Ian --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:35:02 -0800 From: Seth David Schoen <schoenat_private> To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Declan McCullagh writes: > From: "Richard M. Smith" <rmsat_private> > To: "'Declan McCullagh'" <declanat_private> > Subject: Is the State of Georgia going to fingerprint all drivers? > Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:07:12 -0500 > > Hi Declan, > > If I am reading today's press release from Viisage correctly, the State > or Georgia plans to fingerprint everyone in the state who applies for a > drivers licenses. I thought that only criminals and people who work in > high security jobs got fingerprinted. Is Georgia the first state to do > this kind of thing? California has been collecting a thumb print for a long time. This is mentioned in many places, e.g. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs01thru03.htm Therefore, when applying for an original DL/ID card, you must present an acceptable birth date/legal presence document and/or true full name document and provide your social security number. Your thumb print will be taken. Your picture will also be taken. For any other DL/ID card transaction, you are required to present photo identification to safeguard the accuracy and integrity of the Department's documents. The legal authority appears to be: (a) The department may issue an identification card to any person attesting to the true full name, correct age, and other identifying data as certified by the applicant for such identification card. (b) Any person 62 years of age or older may apply for, and the department upon receipt of a proper application therefor shall issue, an identification card bearing the notation "Senior Citizen". (c) Every application for an identification card shall be signed and verified by the applicant before a person authorized to administer oaths and shall be supported by bona fide documentary evidence of the age and identity of the applicant as the department may require, and shall include a legible print of the thumb or finger of the applicant. (d) Any person 62 years of age or older, and any other qualified person, may apply for, or possess, an identification card under the provisions of either subdivision (a) or (b), but not under both of those provisions. Cal. Veh. Code §13000. Since this seemed unnecessary to me, I have put off getting California ID, but I think I'm going to give in soon. I believe the thumbprinting in California is now digital. California does not take images of other fingerprints (as the law says "legible print of the thumb _or_ finger") for a driver license unless you have no thumbs. -- Seth David Schoen <schoenat_private> | Reading is a right, not a feature! http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/ | -- Kathryn Myronuk http://vitanuova.loyalty.org/ | --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:33:26 -0600 From: "Herbert Emholtz" <Herbert.Emholtzat_private> To: <declanat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? This is old news in Texas: Texas Transportation Code, Section 521.142 (b)(1) requires the Texas Department of Public Safety to obtain thumbprints for a Texas driver license. This requirement has been in effect since 1967. <http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/license_issuance/thumbprints.htm>http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/license_issuance/thumbprints.htm Herb --- Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 20:36:11 -0500 (EST) From: "J.D. Abolins" <jda-irat_private> To: Scott McDonald <scottm2at_private> cc: "Richard M. Smith" <rmsat_private>, "'Declan McCullagh'" <declanat_private>, "'Scott McDonald'" <mcdonaldsat_private> Subject: RE: FC: Will the state of Georgia fingerprint all drivers? Here's the Viisage Technology news release about the Georgia contract: http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=VISG&script=410&layout=0&item_id=357515 Among other things in the news release are these two paragprahs describing the cotnracted system: Viisage will implement an in-state, central card production solution that will cost effectively allow tight management of the production and issuance of highly secure drivers' credentials using 3M's Confirm(TM) security overlay. Central production will also afford the DMVS tighter control of the storing, analysis and retrieval of information including scanned application forms, portrait images, signature images, fingerprints and data associated with each driver's record. Entry to the new secure central production facility will be enhanced by Viisage's FacePASS(TM) advanced facial recognition access control technology. Integral to the security enhancements that make up the new program, Viisage will also produce highly secure and tamper resistant interim credentials. These documents will be printed on state-of-the art material, incorporating nearly a dozen security/chemical features specially prepared for the DMVS by Viisage's partner Standard Register. Viisage has partnered with SAGEM Morpho to create the new fingerprint biometric solution, which will allow the rapid searching of any fingerprint against the DMVS fingerprint database. Additionally, the Viisage solution will incorporate a unique point- of-sale offering from their Georgia-based partner CenterStage, which will provide the capability to accept additional payment types and automate the accounting of driver's license fees. <end of snippet> Note the spin-offs mentioned in just this release. There are probably more. The CenterStage partnership hints, I eleive, of a future introduction of fingerprint scans for retail transactions. A check of the print against the state's database and/or any prints encoded on the DL. This is my specultation, nothign yet overtly stated from Viisage or other firms. J.D. Abolins Meyda Online -- Infosec & Privacy Studies Web site: http://www.MeydaOnline.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Politech? 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