FC: Partial transcript of Ashcroft's "Bill? What Bill?" testimony

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Wed Mar 05 2003 - 22:59:44 PST

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    From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeksat_private>
    To: "'bbrightat_private'" <bbrightat_private>, declanat_private
    Subject: RE: FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is a ghost, f
             rom IP
    Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:10:19 -0800
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    
    The text below is the verbatim from the Federal Document Clearing House 
    that does transcription services for congressional hearings.  Other than 
    this, I don't know where it might be online.
    
    ASHCROFT:  Senator, with your permission, I'd like to respond to
    the suggestion that there is a PATRIOT Act II.  When individuals
    indicate to you that if there is a proposal, we'll confer with you, I
    believe they are right.  There is not a proposed Terrorist Act II from
    the Justice Department.  No final discussion has been made with the
    attorney general about proposals.  No final discussion has been made
    with the administration about proposals.
    
        Now, let me just say that we constantly are thinking of things
    that ought to be considered.  And we believe that it's in the interest
    of the country that we think expansively and that we have a thorough
    and clear debate about them considering the pluses and the minuses.
    And we don't believe that it's appropriate to never mention anything
    unless it's already been decided that it's totally OK.  You can't do
    that; consideration requires that.
    
        So if someone leaks the fact that there are items under
    consideration, that does not mean -- or that there is a matter of
    discussion -- that doesn't mean anything out of the ordinary.  I hope
    that characterizes the fact that we are constantly considering how to
    improve.
    
        I want to assure you that there has been no bill, no proposal
    decided on.  I am keenly aware that the administration cannot pass
    legislation.  Only members of the Congress can pass legislation.  It
    would be the height of absurdity for me to have a secret matter that I
    hope to make a law without telling Congress.  I mean, I simply don't
    understand that.
    
        So we will confer.  But I will prefer, if I can, to weed out
    things that I believe are inappropriate before I come to the Congress
    with an idea.
    
        FEINGOLD:  General, I really urge you to do that.
    
        And let me just say that you know my view that the last time we
    had a USA PATRIOT Act that the kind of discussion and airing of the
    issues certainly did not happen.  It's a debate about whether it could
    have happened.  I appreciate your commitment to it happening in this
    case.  And the fact is, there are some specific proposals or possible
    proposals out there.  I don't think it's too early for people, like
    you and me and others, to start discussion whether they're a good
    idea.
    
        And I'm wondering if you could respond to my specific question,
    in the seconds I have, which is can you cite an example of a terrorist
    plot that went undetected because local police had their hands tied by
    consent decree of placing limits on their domestic spying
    capabilities?
    
        ASHCROFT:  I cannot.
    
        FEINGOLD:  Thank you, General.
    
        And of course, I look forward to discussing these provisions and,
    perhaps, we could follow up with a conversation about the items that
    we saw, at least in this draft, whatever this draft is.  There's
    enough items there that people are raising concerns about that the
    conversations and consultations should begin now, in my view.
    
        ASHCROFT:  Well, I don't believe that I should start to consult
    and defend things which I believe are indefensible or not a part of
    something that I would seek to propose.  I guess that's my view.
    
        Until I have something that I think is appropriate, I don't know
    that I should engage in some discussion about something that we don't
    believe is appropriate.  We could agree on a lot of these things that,
    hey, those don't belong in our discussion.
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: bbrightat_private [<mailto:bbrightat_private>mailto:bbrightat_private]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:20 AM
    To: declanat_private; Brock.Meeksat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is a ghost, 
    from IP
    
    is this online anywhere?
    
    bb
    
    On 5 Mar 2003 at 8:29, Declan McCullagh wrote:
    
    Date sent:              Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:29:25 -0500
    To:                     politechat_private
    From:                   Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    Subject:                FC: Ashcroft tells Congress that Patriot Act II is 
    a ghost, from IP
    Send reply to:          declanat_private
    
    
    ------ Forwarded Message
    From: "Meeks, Brock (MSNBCi)" <Brock.Meeksat_private>
    Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:23:30 -0800
    To: "'daveat_private'" <daveat_private>
    Subject: Ashcroft: Patriot II is a ghost
    
    Sen. Russ Feingold just a few minutes ago during a hearing this
    morning on Homeland Security asked Atty. Gen. Ashcroft why he hadn't
    come to Congress to discuss provision of the "Patriot Act II."
    
    Ashcroft replied, categorically, that "there is no Patriot Act II.
    That said, it doesn't mean that we aren't constantly thinking and
    discussing how to make things better, safer," Ashcroft said.  "So if
    there are some leaks... it's about what we've been thinking," Ashcroft
    said.
    
    "There has been no bill decided on, no proposal decided on," Ashcroft
    said.  "It would be the height of absurdity to have a bill I want to
    make law without informing Congress first."
    
    Feingold wasn't buying what Ashcroft was saying.  "Well, there is
    something out there," Feingold shot back, "and I'd appreciate you
    coming to Congress first."
    
    Ashcroft finished off saying that "Until I think we have something
    appropriate" to discuss "I don't think we should engage in debate on
    something until it's appropriate."
    
    
    ------ End of Forwarded Message
    
    
    
    
    
    
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