FC: Politech members reply over Paypal deleting news site account

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Thu Mar 13 2003 - 18:04:20 PST

  • Next message: Declan McCullagh: "FC: John Gilmore: Sen. Wyden's CAPPS II amendment is bullshit"

    Personally, I've been happy enough with Paypal and find it a useful 
    service. It is reasonable to speak out against Paypal if we know for a fact 
    it is terminating accounts arbitrarily for political activities. Here, 
    however, we don't know enough about the details of the situation, and I'll 
    give Paypal/eBay the benefit of the doubt for now. If the details suggest 
    otherwise or this becomes a pattern, then I'll change my mind.
    
    Previous Politech message:
    "Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives no reason"
    http://www.politechbot.com/p-04548.html
    
    -Declan
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:26:32 -0800
    From: rabbleat_private
    To: declanat_private
    Cc: politechat_private, customercareat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives 
    no  reason
    
    As the person who had been handling the pay pal account for indymedia i have
    to say we aren't to happy with pay pal. They haven't turned our accounts off
    for political reasons, but we've had to jump through their fraud hoops
    several times including have to fake the existance of a president of
    indymedia to get our accounts reactivated.
    
    We have been considering switching, but the trouble is to what, pay pal has
    unfortunately been by far the easist system to setup. Affero is very
    attractive becuase it allows donars to specify which project they want their
    money to go to, and allows the building up of reputations.
    
    The real reason we are thinking of switching is because we don't want to
    have our donar database handed over to the US government for their war on
    diss^H^H^H terrorism. There's a good legal case history of protecting the
    membership lists of political organizations in the US although that my be
    changing with the Patriot Act and Son of Patriot Act.
    
    Anyway i'd recommend that any groups doing vaugely political work stay away
    from pay pal. It's like a bad addictive drug, the switching process may be a
    little painful but you're a whole lot healthier without it.
    
    in solidarity,
    evan
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 15:23:54 -0500 (EST)
    From: Tommyc <tommycat_private>
    To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives no
      reason
    
    Citibank's c2it is free, and easy enough once you get registered.
    
    ---
    
    To: declanat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives no 
    reason
    From: corbetat_private (Jonathan Corbet)
    In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Mar 2003 01:24:39 EST."
                  <5.1.1.6.0.20030313011330.01667bf0at_private>
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:33:16 -0700
    
    [Really about credit card accounts - perhaps getting a bit peripheral to
    the main issue...]
    
     > It would be useful if members of the forum might be able to suggest
     > other alternatives. We have been advised by one person to open
     > our own Visa Merchant account but are very reluctant to do so.
    
    It's worth mentioning that merchant accounts are not necessarily a lot
    safer.  When LWN.net decided that it was time to give up and shut down, our
    readers responded with over $30K in donations, mostly with credit cards.
    Our merchant bank decided they didn't like that, *extracted the donation
    money back out of our checking account*, and held onto it for months.
    Among other things, they didn't like the high proportion of non-US cards
    used, and they *really* didn't like the merchant account being used for
    donations.  It took us a long time to straighten out that one, and nearly
    killed the business.
    
    Now we have a new merchant bank, and we keep the bulk of our funds in a
    different account that they don't know about.  We've also moved away from
    the donation model.  Things are better now, but I've learned that merchant
    banks, too, can turn hostile and screw you over on a moment's notice.
    
    jon
    
    Jonathan Corbet
    Executive editor, LWN.net
    corbetat_private
    
    ---
    
    Reply-To: "J.C." <janconklinat_private>
    From: "J.C." <janconklinat_private>
    To: <declanat_private>
    References: <5.1.1.6.0.20030313011330.01667bf0at_private>
    Subject: Re: Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives no  reason
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:00:19 -0700
    
    It reeks of political censorship that PayPal should decide it is the 
    internet finance cop and selectively grab some accounts and not others - 
    but it's not really a surprise.  Since eBay bought PayPal, and eBay is 
    certainly posturing itself as the New Corporate Billionaire On The Block 
    politico (taking such liberties as readily giving up its customers' 
    information to "law enforcement" without subpoena, per Politech) BOTH 
    entities seem to be acting unlike businesses and more like the 
    small-town-mayor running for US Congress, willing to lick any powerful 
    entity's boots to get there.  I am mystified by the annoying eBay 
    commercials on television, and moreso at its constant telemarketing lately 
    (disregarding the Colorado "No-Call" List, yet).  I hope PayPal recovers 
    part of its senses, or I'm going to be forced to do business with one of 
    Those Other Internet banking ventures.
    
    Best regards,
    Jan Conklin
    
    ---
    
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:06:37 -0700
    To: declanat_private
    From: Charles Oriez <coriezat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Paypal deletes account of independent news site, gives
       no reason
    
    501(C)3 non profits can use Network For Good.  http://denveraitp.org 
    funnels scholarship money through them.
    
    Sierra Club Rocky Mountain Chapter http://rmc.sierraclub.org uses 
    http://processing.net with good results.  If you are a 501(C)4 or C(3) they 
    will waive processing fees provided they can donate them to your selected 
    (C)3 arm, although you still have to pay your bank's merchant account fees.
    
    Feel free to share.
    
    
    Charles Oriez     coriezat_private
    39  34' 34.4"N / 105 00' 06.3"W
    
    ---
    
    From: saksfiat_private
    X-WebTV-Signature: 1
             ETAtAhUAn4EDQynDVfQ/M0k2y8OMgcdAFuwCFBT4SI8RBUf0sXp1WsE86h0dvsXd
    Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:23:01 -0800 (PST)
    To: declanat_private
    Subject: Re: Delete my e-dress if used please. FC: Paypal deletes account
    
    One should be aware that Paypal recently was purchased by Ebay and Ebay
    turns over to the Federal government ALL information they have of their
    sellers and buyers, almost volunteering the info without being asked
    legally.  So political use to target and  eliminate contrary sites to
    the "group think" of this current administration would not be surprising
    
    
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