FC: One more round of replies on Mailblocks' privacy policy and spam

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Wed Mar 26 2003 - 14:11:49 PST

  • Next message: Declan McCullagh: "FC: Use a photo-cell-phone in Italy, go to jail?"

    [There are two more points to be made about Mailblocks: First, as 
    highlighted on Slashdot 
    (http://slashdot.org/articles/03/03/23/2035250.shtml), why would Mailblocks 
    "old terms of service" agreement permit spamming in the first place? What 
    did these folks have in mind? Second, the current version gives Mailblocks 
    the right to "change" their policy at any time without users' consent, and 
    without even notifying them. Mailblocks is hardly required to concoct that 
    kind of infinitely plastic agreement, and because it chose to, users should 
    consider themselves warned. Previous Politech message: 
    http://www.politechbot.com/p-04585.html --Declan]
    
    ---
    
    To: declanat_private
    cc: politechat_private
    Subject: Re: FC: Mailblocks changes privacy policy, won't spam customers
    Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:16:00 -0800
    
     >    "... we reserve the right to release information
     >     concerning any visitor or member ... to
     >     protect the interests of Mailblocks, our members or others ...
    
    I.e. they will release your private info anytime that releasing it
    benefits anybody.  Or they "reserve the right" to, anyway.
    
    I.e. their privacy policy says that you have no privacy.
    
    Yeah, I know, what's new?  A commercial company that has a privacy
    policy that says you have no privacy.  Ho hum.  Another company
    to NOT do business with.  Finding good help is so hard these days.
    
             John
    
    ---
    
    Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:12:57 -0500
    To: declanat_private
    From: Kevin Werbach <kevinat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Why is Mailblocks' approach different? (Answer: It isn't)
    
    FYI, putting aside the PR puffery and media reprinting of same, Mailblocks 
    doesn't claim to be the first challenge/response implementation.  They 
    claim to have: (1) done extensive user testing to overcome some of the 
    problems others have identified (draw your own conclusions), and (2) 
    purchased already-issued patents that give them control over the 
    fundamental IP around the mechanism (ditto).
    
    Personally, I think they would be better off selling Mailblocks as a better 
    Webmail experience to Yahoo/Hotmail (it is), rather than a magic bullet for 
    spam.  On the other hand, whitelists will become more prevalent, whether 
    people like it or not.  I get several hundred spams a day, which I'm barely 
    able to keep in check through several layers of Bayesian and rule-based 
    filters.  Configuring and regularly checking the filters takes me more time 
    than I'm sure most users are willing to invest.  As spam gets worse, 
    shifting the burden to senders will sound appealing to a lot of people.
    
    -k-
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    KEVIN WERBACH                                       kevinat_private
    Supernova Group, LLC                 1 (877) 803-7101 (voicemail/fax)
    http://werbach.com                   Weblog -- http://werblog.com
    
    *** SUPERNOVA 2003, July 8-9, DC --  http://www.pulver.com/supernova/
    
    ---
    
    Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:45:23 -0600
    From: Stan Robins <srobinsat_private>
    Organization: Robins Analytics, Inc.
    To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Why is Mailblocks' approach different? (Answer: It isn't)
    
    Hello Declan,
    
    I haven't received the "next Politech message" (FC: Mailblocks changes
    privacy policy, won't spam customers ) yet, but I read it on the web
    site.
    
    Mailblocks leaves a large loophole in their revised Terms of Use and
    Privacy Policy in that they do not say whether they classify a user's
    email address as "Personal" or as "Non-personal" information.
    Essentially, they still reserve the right to cause a user, by virtue
    of subscribing to the service, to be spammed in the future.
    
    -- 
    Best regards,
    Stan Robins
    
    Email: srobinsat_private
    Using The Bat, 1.61
    www.ritlabs.com
    
    ---
    
    Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:32:21 +0100
    To: declanat_private
    From: Brad Knowles <brad.knowlesat_private>
    Subject: Re: FC: Mailblocks changes privacy policy, won't spam
      customers
    Cc: politechat_private
    
    At 1:41 PM -0500 2003/03/25, Declan McCullagh wrote:
    
    >  My understanding from a fellow journalist who spoke to the company
    >  yesterday is that Mailblocks accidentally placed an old placeholder
    >  version of their privacy policy when they put the new site up
    >  yesterday. They planned to fix it Monday evening, and apparently
    >  they have.
    
             Looking at <http://www.mailblocks.com/helplet/privacy-policy.htm> 
    and <http://www.mailblocks.com/helplet/terms-of-service.htm>, they are both 
    still dated "March 17, 2003", and say things like:
    
             1.  Services.
                     Mailblocks provides a fast, low-cost email service to its
                     users. Other new features may be added in the future; unless
                     expressly stated otherwise, any new or enhanced features
                     will be subject to the then-current version of this Agreement.
                     In exchange for your use of the Services, you expressly permit
                     and authorize Company, and such third parties as may be
                     authorized by Company, to furnish to you from time to time,
                     through the Services or any other means, with information
                     prepared by Company or by (or on behalf of) other entities,
                     including onsite advertisements (such information, "Third
                     Party Content" or "Advertising"). You acknowledge that such
                     Third Party Content may be an inseparable part of the
                     Services, and that furnishing such Third Party Content to
                     you cannot be terminated unless the Services are terminated.
    
                     Company neither endorses nor is responsible for Third Party
                     Content, and you may be exposed to Third Party Content that
                     is offensive, inaccurate, misleading, deceptive, out-of-date,
                     or incomplete. You must evaluate, and bear all risks
                     associated with, the Third Party Content, and your use of
                     and reliance on any such content. We are not responsible for
                     any errors or omissions in Third Party Content, for hyperlinks
                     embedded in Third Party Content or for any results obtained
                     from the use of such content. Under no circumstances will we
                     be liable for any loss or damage caused by your reliance on
                     any such Third Party Content. Your correspondence or business
                     dealings with, or participation in promotions sponsored by,
                     any such third party advertisers, or any other third party
                     providers of goods or services accessed through the Services,
                     and any terms, conditions, warranties or representations
                     associated with such dealings, are solely between you and
                     such third party advertiser or provider.
    
    
             And
    
             (2) Personally identifiable information: Mailblocks collects
                     personally identifiable information during the registration
                     process, and this Privacy Policy serves as notice that such
                     information is collected under those circumstances. You
                     must complete the registration process if you wish to use
                     Mailblocks' Services.
    
                     Not now, but in the future, Mailblocks may permit third
                     parties, such as advertisers, to furnish our members,
                     through the Services and otherwise, with information from
                     time to time. In these cases, your personally identifiable
                     information is not transferred to the advertiser.
    
                     [ ... deletia ... ]
    
                     If and when Mailblocks, or a third party in conjunction
                     with Mailblocks, sponsors promotions or sweepstakes,
                     either Mailblocks or the third party will post relevant
                     privacy information in the official rules and/or
                     registration area for the promotion or sweepstakes.
                     That privacy information, to the extent it conflicts
                     with this Privacy Policy, will govern that particular
                     promotion or sweepstakes.  You will never be entered
                     into any promotion or sweepstakes without your "opt-in"
                     consent.
    
    
             In other words, they still reserve the right to spam you.
    
    -- 
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowlesat_private>
    
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
         -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
    
    GCS/IT d+(-) s:+(++)>: a C++(+++)$ UMBSHI++++$ P+>++ L+ !E-(---) W+++(--) N+
    !w--- O- M++ V PS++(+++) PE- Y+(++) PGP>+++ t+(+++) 5++(+++) X++(+++) R+(+++)
    tv+(+++) b+(++++) DI+(++++) D+(++) G+(++++) e++>++++ h--- r---(+++)* z(+++)
    
    ---
    
    Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:01:04 0000
    From: "Martin" <martinat_private>
    Subject: http://politechbot.com/p-04580.html
    To: declanat_private
    
    
    Two claims from the front page of http://www.mailblocks.com
    
    ---quote---
    # Mailblocks is a new class of email service that completely rids your 
    Inbox of spam and offers the powerful features you want in your web mail.
    
    # Mailblocks was designed to perform like an application. It's as fast over 
    dial-up as other web mail services perform over broadband.
    --end-quote---
    
    All extraordinary claims require extraodinary justification.
    
    So where is their justification for these two extrodinary claims?
    
    
    
    
    
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