Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/2005/04/25/be-wary-of/ -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [Politech] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history"feature [priv] Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:53:03 -0700 From: Stefanie Olsen <Stefanie.Olsen@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> To be fair, the same concerns exist with any "account" based search engine like Yahoo or ISPs like Earthlink. Now, I think there's a real concern there and the issues need to be addressed in the search industry, but they all need to answer to them. Stefanie -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history" feature [priv] Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:22:13 -0400 From: Eric Freedman <Eric.M.Freedman@private> To: <declan@private> -Of course it could be relevant in a family law case, and not necessarily in any way suggesting the slightest impropriety. For example, suppose the husband resists giving custody to the wife on the theory that, despite what she now says, she has a long-term plan to move to another city and take a higher-paying job there. Certainly if she has been browsing sites relating to that city and its residential real estate, that would be relevant and any judge would order the information disclosed. After all, there would be nothing wrong with the husband's lawyer asking about all this at the wife's deposition. -E. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [Politech] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history"feature [priv] Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:18:17 -0700 From: Ray Everett-Church <ray@private> To: 'Declan McCullagh' <declan@private>, <politech@private> Declan: Nobody seems to have read close enough on this one. Both Google's VP of Engineering, and the Privacy FAQ for My Search History make pretty clear that they *already* store all of those search details, even if you ask them to be deleted. Quotes, cites, and details at: http://www.privacyclue.com/index.php/20050421/google-launches-new-privacy-contro versy/ Regards, -Ray http://www.privacyclue.com -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history" feature [priv] Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:47:36 -0400 From: J.D. Abolins <jabolins@private> Reply-To: jabolins@private Organization: Meyda Online To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> References: <426DAE46.4080905@private> Divorce case are not only type where saved Google searches would be of interest. There are various types of cases dealing with information and technology issues where Google searches might be sought. Intellectual property disputes might hinge upon prior knowledge of a work and the searches might show a possibility that the defendant had such knowledge. Computer and network abuse cases might involve Google search for tools, methods, and vulnerabilities. In, say, a workplace computer system sabotage case, an employee's outside of work searches for info on the particular system and software's vulnerabilities, testing/administration/hacking tools, and other information might show the defendant had the means to commit the act. The info from Google's servers would supplement any info found at the workplace systems. As there are many ways to use Google searches for network security vulnerability testing, I can see the risks of storing such searches should one ever be accused of a computer crime or of some civil tort. Not likely that a smart criminal is going to use the Google personal history feature. Some well meaning people figuring they are doing nothing wrong and have nothing to worry about might stumble into a situation where the info can be a problem. The personal search info saved on Google systems may include saves from computers not readily available for discovery or search & seizure. (E.g.; from cybercafes, hotel computers, etc.) The standard "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer applies top the above comments. J.D. Abolins -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [Politech] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history"feature [priv] Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:34:15 -0400 From: Putnam, Charles <charles.putnam@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> Declan, I think you're probably right to think that search histories and internet viewing practices could play a role in divorce. I can't vouch for the site or the stats, but this link contains some interesting numbers that suggest that a spouse's search preferences might come up in states with divorce for "cause" or in matters of property division/support or child custody: http://www.divorcewizards.com/divorcestats_porn.html. I'm less sure that search histories become the grist for criminal litigation as often. "Possession" has to be proven in the child porn cases. In the luring of minors for sex cases there tends to be plenty of evidence generated from the child's [or detective's] computer, the presence of the defendant and the toys/aids that he brings along. I suppose browsing patterns might help to prove "intent" in terrorism cases, but my sense is that the same probable cause that gets the Google info also gets the target's computer. In some states there might is a lower standard of proof to get something like "toll" records, but my sense is that courts have resisted allowing investigators to get access to digital information with "communicative" content [like e-mails & search histories] using toll records statutes. In some cases it might be possible to "chain back" from Google searches to show probable cause that a person of investigative interest would be likely to possess relevant information on a particular computer, but that suggests both a level of investigative information developed from traditional sources and the oversight of a judge or grand jury. It's also possible to envision creative defense counsel employing a version of the "twinkie" defense using search histories as well ["my client is a sex-addicted, Internet crazed individual, your Honor, he couldn't form the required mental state to commit the crime of ________."]. Regards, Charles T. Putnam Co-Director Justiceworks 208 Huddleston Hall University of New Hampshire (603) 862-7041 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [IP] Privacy tip: be wary of Google's "personal history" feature [priv] (fwd) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:52:34 -0400 (EDT) From: W.B. McNamara <whitney@private> To: declan@private Hey there - I know that you know, but since I forgot to copy you directly on this and it doesn't look like it made IP, just wanted to send it along. The note is a hair flip...possibly condescending...but my base concern is the attention being paid to potential privacy concerns associated with Google (because Google is the big deal of the moment), at the expense of broader concerns. When considered in the context of what other for-profit companies are doing or planning to do, to say nothing of what many governments are doing, Google's search history is an example of a *type* of privacy issue that we should be increasingly concerned about, not an isolated incident. If Google killed the idea tomorrow, Amazon/A9 would still be doing something similar with arguably broader implications, as would Yahoo and Microsoft...and then there's the Patriot Act... Again, I know you know, but just wanted to get it out of my system. :) Thanks, Whit -- W.B. McNamara whitney@private http://absono.us _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/)
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