Re: Security - ciphers - autentification

From: Lada 'Ray' Lostak (rayat_private)
Date: Sat Apr 20 2002 - 00:36:49 PDT

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    Hi !
    
    First of all, I am sorry for typos/bad spelling sometimes.
    
    >I think you're heading down the wrong path, my friend.  You're doing way
    >more work than you need.  Before asking how to implement such a detailed
    >process (which seems more like a patchwork of random phrases from Applied
    >Cryptography), you need to define exactly what you're trying to protect,
    >who you're trying to protect it from, and who your users are.  Furthermore,
    >your description sounds like a reinvention of HTTP digest authentication,
    >among other things.
    I tried. I can't explain better..... Basically, in one sentence, I can say:
    
    I need to protect HTML thin client of busines system. It needs to be
    accessed from untrustworthy terminals - such as hotels, customers, etc.
    Because of this, I need something, what doesn't store ANYTHING on terminal
    or require INSTALATION. We have to assume that keyboard is logged,
    connection sniffed. The result of authentication (I hope I spelled well :o)
    is enabling access to bysines system (separate domain).
    
    That's all.
    
    As I wrote, I prefer some 'allready done way' - but I didn't found any,
    which meets this simple needs. I looked around RSA etc. but I didn't found
    (anyway: we allready have SecurID related products - but for different
    pusposes).
    
    What will fit our needs ?
    
    >Keep in mind that proprietary security solutions are very rarely found to
    >be secure, once tested by experts. Using "some weird CPU's" is not a valid
    >reason for avoiding established algorithms and protocols.  Open,
    >established systems for crypto and authentication already exist, and are
    >used every day by people with very strong security requirements.  Standards
    >like AES have been pounded, beaten, smashed, and run over by the top crypto
    >experts in the world.  I think you're misled in thinking you have to start
    >from scratch.
    I didn't find anything, what fit our needs. If there is something, it
    requires INSTALATION or it runs only on WINDOWS. And I use "wierd CPU" only
    because I didn't find better solution than generation floating access code
    at different machine, to supress storing datas on host
    computer/instalations -> small separate machine (with some CPU generating
    access codes).
    
    And anyway, similar principle uses many banks - and they prefer it BEFORE
    asymetric cryptography [and they are security experts]. They give you small
    'calculator' -> and it works similar way as I described (a bit different due
    different purposes). It allows you to login into HTTPS banking, wire
    anything, standing ordering, create new accounts, ... Basically everything -
    you don't need to go into bank anymore. Is this way (in general) secure then
    ?
    
    And about 'security exprests': yes, we should. We allready did it for few
    things (network based communications - we are HW developers). We never had
    problem yet. I belive in simple things. And it is verry hard to find 'real'
    security experts anyway - majority of "experts" only plays on it :( I
    personally prefer to make this small thingy open source (if we will do - I
    say many times, that I am going to do that only because I don't see
    different solution), maybe someone will need it too, look at it, etc. Real
    security experts doesn't work at security companies IMHO.
    
    >By the way, spell check is your friend.  "Authentication" and
    >"cryptography" don't contain F's.
    I am sorry. I will try to use proper spelling.
    
    R.
    



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