Re: F5 Networks Security Advisory (fwd)

From: pedwardat_private
Date: Thu Nov 11 1999 - 10:20:16 PST

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    >
    > Okay, first off, I've never used anything from F5.  In fact, I don't
    > think I've ever seen anything from them, firsthand.  However, my
    > thoughts on this are generic enough that this shouldn't matter.
    >
    > At 10:18 PM 11/10/99 -0800, pedwardat_private wrote:
    >
    > >First of all, it's just stupid to sit here and say "They ship a product with
    > >a security hole, because it has a support password that is root priv'd".
    >
    > How is this different from the backdoors that were found in other network
    > equipment, not too long ago?
    
    In the other systems, the password was obtained through a hex dump of the firmware,
    this is Extended DES encoded, much stronger than anything in firmware, to date.
    
    >
    > >They assured me that they rotate the passwords on a regular basis to
    > ensure >that accountability is retained internally.
    >
    > What is that regular basis?  Hourly?  Daily?  Weekly?  Monthly?  Yearly?
    > There's still at least two boxes out there with the same password.
    
    I was told monthly.
    
    >
    > >If the device shipped with a password that was obtained via a hex dump of
    > a >ROM, I could understand, but we're talking about a password that requires
    > >many hours of CPU time, or hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware.
    >
    > No, we're talking about a password that is identical on at least two systems.
    > This is bad, in my opinion.
    
    How are they going to fulfill their support contract without it?  They login
    and upgrade your system for you, with your knowledge, of course.
    
    >
    > >I don't like good people like F5 getting grilled, and sending me a stupid
    > >advisory, because someone cried the equivelent of 'Y2K bug'.
    >
    > Again, if I had a system from F5, this bug would at least annoy me.
    
    It's not a bug, it's a policy decision.  People are freaking over it because
    of the mass hysteria created by 'ohh, you shouldn't have a vendor password'.
    
    >
    > >Hey everybody, <insert fav dist> ships with a UID 0 account, it's password
    > >is probably guessable.
    >
    > This is what I really wanted to comment about.  First, why do the systems
    > ship with a password at all?  None of the OSes I've used ship with one,
    > but they do -require- you to create a password for the 'root' account
    > when you are physically at the terminal during install, or at first boot.
    > Without doing this, the system never boots entirely.  Or, it's done a
    > different way.  Take Cisco routers (at least the one's I've used) for
    > example.  You cannot remotely log into them if a password is not set.
    > Setting the password is as simple as plugging in a serial cable.  I think
    > F5 could/should do something similar to this, regardless of which IP
    > addresses are allowed to connect to the system.
    
    Unix is slightly different than embedded, but this could be achieved via:
    
    /etc/securetty:
    /dev/ttyS0
    
    >
    > >Grr, this just makes me mad that we're discussing this.
    >
    > I see it as a security related bug.  Now, I'll probably never buy an F5
    > product, or be in any way involved in a purchasing decision related to
    > an F5 product, but that has nothing to do with this bug.  Still, I find
    > it interesting and I believe that it does belong on BUGTRAQ.
    
    That's the point, it's not a 'bug', it's a policy set forth by F5.  Someone
    may disagreee with this policy, but I don't.  I have faith in the security
    they maintain, ot trust them with access to my box.
    
    I didn't intend this to be an attack on you, I was addressing the list as a whole.
    
    >
    > >--Perry
    >
    > Mike
    >
    > --
    > Mike Johnson - mike.johnson@gd-cs.com
    > Network Engineer - New Technology Group
    > General Dynamics - All opinions are mine, not General Dynamics'.
    >
    
    --Perry
    
    --
    Perry Harrington                 Director of                   zelur xuniL  ()
    perryat_private             System Architecture               Think Blue.  /\
    



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