RE: CRIME FW: @Stake pulls pin on Geer: Effect on research and pu blication (fwd)

From: Kuo, Jimmy (Jimmy_Kuo@private)
Date: Mon Oct 06 2003 - 11:34:19 PDT

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: CRIME FW: @Stake pulls pin on Geer: Effect on research and pu blication (fwd)"

    >>>How could AV possibly have mitigated a server worm like Blaster? How 
    >>>could *any* signature-based defense defend against a fast spreading
    worm
    >>>that hits your machines faster than any AV company can distribute an 
    >>>update? This was the point of Staniford et al's Warhol Worm paper 
    >>><http://www.vnunet.com/News/1132084>: that worms can spread across the
    >>>entire Internet in minutes, far faster than AV vendors can get a new 
    >>>signature out.
        
    >>McAfee's VirusScan detected Blaster as "Exploit-DcomRpc" using DATs
    released
    >>the previous week.  (Similarly, Nachi/Welchia.)
    
    >I did obscure one point: that Blaster was not an 0-day exploit, and 
    >therefore it was possible to distribute signatures before the worm got 
    >going. This stops working for genuine 0-day exploits, where the worm is 
    >using an unknown vulnerability.
    
    >But I'm confused about another point: how could AV stop an RPC worm? 
    >That seems more like something that an NIDS (SNORT, ISS RealSecure) or 
    >NIPS (Hogwash) would stop. How does AV get in the way of server worms?
    
    Most AV today is based off file activity (though this will be changing).
    So, you question is valid.
    
    In this case, the injector portion that comes by through the exploit tells
    the machine to download the more complete virus.  When that download
    happens, we detect the file coming down, and block it.  And thus the machine
    does not get infected.
    
    However, a stub of code sits at that RPC vulnerability.  But it believes it
    has satisfied its job and just sleeps.
    
    Jimmy
    



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