Actually, I was referring to the "virtual crime" of stealing the "virtual sword" from an online gaming world. The thought being, how do you secure a crime scene that only exists as interpreted data. It was a rhetorical, albeit thought provoking question. In the news report the theft of the sword took place in the real world, in which the sword is data that can controlled by access that can be bought and sold. The real case has a crime scene we can handle. The subpoena will tell the gaming company to preserve and present logs and records related to the theft. What if something delays the subpoena, can you use a court order to require the company to preserve the data or will the court order take longer than the subpoena to produce? Craig A Schiller, CISSP President Hawkeye Security Training LLC CraigSchiller@private http://www.hawkeyesecuritytraining.com 503.330.3162 _____ From: owner-crime@private [mailto:owner-crime@private] On Behalf Of Nick Murphy Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:24 PM To: crime@private Subject: RE: CRIME New Category of Computer Crime Per a conversation I had earlier with Craig on the phone, I took the question wrong. What he meant was how do you control a crime scene when you do not own the equipment, I gave a response that assumed you own the equipment. I would like to keep this thread going because it is a great question. The only thing I know of is to subpoena a company for the logs/records of the system and the incident at hand and pray they have what you need. Other than that, I am not too sure. Does anyone have some experience with this? Thanks, Nick Murphy MCSE, GCIH Director of Information Technology EthicsPoint, Inc. _____ From: owner-crime@private [mailto:owner-crime@private] On Behalf Of Craig Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:00 PM To: crime@private Subject: CRIME New Category of Computer Crime From the CISSP forum an interesting post from Les Bell in Austrailia - I 'd like to know, how do you secure the virtual crime scene? Online-gamer-killed-for-selling-virtual-weapon <http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Online-gamer-killed-for-selling-virtual-we apon/2005/03/30/1111862440188.html> From: "Les Bell" <lesbell@private> Subject: Is This A New Category of Computer Crime? See http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Online-gamer-killed-for-selling-virtual-wea pon/2005/03/30/1111862440188.html Obviously, the final crime took place in the real world, but note how the offender was angered that the law provided no protection for his "virtual" assets. I'm used to the idea that the law will lag behind technology to some degree, but I suspect that as virtual reality develops further, it is going to pose a lot of problems, culturally as well as legally. How long before we have virtual courts to sort out alleged transgressions in virtual worlds, for example? The mind boggles. . . Best, --- Les Bell, RHCE, CISSP [http://www.lesbell.com.au <http://www.lesbell.com.au/> ] Craig A Schiller, CISSP President Hawkeye Security Training LLC CraigSchiller@private http://www.hawkeyesecuritytraining.com 503.330.3162
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