-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Be careful whom you associate yourselves with though..... I got summarily used by several Police Departments in California who took advantage of my eagerness to help to get my services for free under the auspices of an "internship" and then just stopped returning my calls when it came time to hire me as an Officer...... Now, not everyone will have this experience, but Law Enforcement can be a very tight circle, and if you associate yourself as being even slightly more talented than the officers working in the computer crimes division, they will see you as a threat to their positions, which are highly prized among cops as an assignment for the good hours and casual atmosphere. One even went so far as to make things up about me in order to prevent my being hired so that I could not compete for his position. Just remember, Police and Law Enforcement agencies in general are very suspicious, untrusting, and politically driven agencies that can easily turn on you if you don't conform..... I would still do it all over again though, even if my original hopes of "saving the world" have been dashed by bad politics and backstabbing co-workers, because people like us are so desperately needed to help those who do not have the ability to help themselves.....Especially the children. So go forth and do good, but take care of yourself. It can be a real jungle out there....... - -----Original Message----- From: Gregory_DeGennaroat_private [mailto:Gregory_DeGennaroat_private] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:22 AM To: d.heinonenat_private; forensicsat_private Subject: RE: transition to a career in computer forensics Reading more of your email ... Yes they most likely want you to be special agents or police officers. Although this is not always the case. What I would do, is stop by a police department or the City Hall and tell them that you would like to be in the computer investigations department. They will usually direct you in the right direction. You may want to do an internship at a police department so they can get to know you. Like the computer industry, most of the time it is who you know. Of course, I do not know what your situation is like but go on a ride along. You may actually want to become a police officer first. I have been on 16 ride alongs myself and some were boring while others where both scary and exciting. And of course, have a clean background (again this all depends on where you want to go) California USA is probably the most stringent of any government agency in the world. - -----Original Message----- From: daniel heinonen [mailto:d.heinonenat_private] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:48 PM To: forensicsat_private Subject: Re: transition to a career in computer forensics Hi Elizabeth, What I have noticed is most people post off list on these topics so I thought I would send my response on the list and hope it helps someone and hope it is kinda on track and accurate. I am a student and a system administrator who is also in the same position. Presently I have finished my degree in computing and I am now doing further study in Justice Studies (same thing police tend to study). Am hoping to go over to the Computing department again and study in their security section as some members there have produced papers on forensics. I will continue this study even if I get a job in the field but I hope that if I don't happen to get a job in the next while eventually I will be trained up in the theory at least. I have even thought of saving up to go to US to study their however some of the better training is for Police only, with a few exceptions. On-line courses might be a better option but I always love travelling every 2 years and its been more than 2 years. BTW anyone know why the following link is not working its a large list of training http://www.ne-htcia.org/conted.html ?? I have a few friends in the forensics department in the police and they enjoy it. Also it was identified that there would be a need for a number more people in his area in the next few years. Alot of people jump out of the police force and into the private sector. By what I can work out it is normally the big firms like Andersons consulting and such. Also there is a thin line between investigation and forensics examiner. I know of a police force which has the investigator do the pre investigation, seizure, analyzing results, going to court. Where the examiner would receive a computer or some high tech devise and would have to retrieve information off it in a forensically sound manner. They do also go to a crime scene if they are not allowed to seize the item. Also they would go to court if their procedures are questioned. In the case of the police force i believe the main reason I would not be a prime candidate would be my training in laws. When you analyze a machine you have to know what is illegal and under what grounds. Also you have to know that what you are doing on the machine is done in a forensically sound manner and that you are not breaching privacy or the rules of the search warrant etc... So I am thinking of picking up a few subjects in this area. But as I used to work in the Law faculty i might just go and ask a few lecturers for private lessons. BTW Some police departments will accept non police employees into their computer investigations/forensics departments but some require you to be a police officer. So if you REALLY REALLY want to do it you could talk to someone in the police force about taking this path etc.. One last thing about the police is that they do investigations on crimes and when they find evidence on computers it normally includes GRAPHIC photos of incest and pediphilla etc.. so if you do not wish to be around this all the time then try private sector or something. This field i would believe to have a few back yard traders (people who learn as they go) which is not always bad but in the case of criminal investigations you do not want to do something wrong and put someone behind bars due to your lack of knowledge. Again this is not a bad thing however I personally would only want to do investigations if i understand the methodologies/procedures and tools to an advanced level. Whatever you learn, learn it well and learn it as well as you can because just passing the tests should not cut it. I know my path is boring and dull, but I really like the field and that is my action plan. - -Daniel Heinonen At 07:31 PM 10/07/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, all, > >I'm a systems administrator with an MS in computer science and about >three years of full-time experience who is looking to make a career >transition to computer forensics. For the past several weeks, I've >been >investigating this field by seeking out information on lists such as >this, in books, and on other websites. I've found a lot of great >stuff, and I'm very interested in learning more about the field with >an eye toward >getting a job as a technician or an analyst. I've signed up for a >couple of online courses at Knowledge Solutions to get my feet wet >(http://www.corpus-delicti.com), and if they go well, I will enroll >in the online course offered by Key Computer (http://www.cftco.com). > >I've spent some time pouring over the list archives, and there are a >lot of great references mentioned (books, websites, software, >training >courses, etc). What I'm looking for now is a little bit of advice >on how to successfully transition from my job as a systems >administrator to a job in the computer forensics field (public or >private sector). Have any of you made such a transition? How did >it work out for you? I have all this great information in front of >me, and I'd love any advice on how best to make use of it. Any >suggestions (from anyone -- not just former >sysadmins) on where to best apply my energies would be helpful. I'd >also love to hear about any companies or organizations in the New >York City area that do computer forensics work. > >Thanks very much! > >Elizabeth Genco - ----------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided by the SecurityFocus ARIS analyzer service. For more information on this free incident handling, management and tracking system please see: http://aris.securityfocus.com - ----------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided by the SecurityFocus ARIS analyzer service. For more information on this free incident handling, management and tracking system please see: http://aris.securityfocus.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 6.5.3 iQA/AwUBO080z0zIW3/a/P0NEQK4eACgu9CGapGXBaEZlERCM+Tex6xq2vYAn1lw 9CJmfVbrd3+Gm/IUaQHm+u6t =xndk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ----------------------------------------------------------------- This list is provided by the SecurityFocus ARIS analyzer service. 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