RE: how to do intrusion detection right

From: Gary Crumrine (gcrum@us-state.gov)
Date: Mon Apr 20 1998 - 03:38:11 PDT

  • Next message: David Collier-Brown: "Re: Intrusion Detection and Secuirty Policy"

    I think one thing not mentioned directly concerning the worth of IDS as a 
    whole, is that like an NFR, or a firewall, or tools like Net Sonar, 
     Ballista, or whatever, they are just that.  Tools.  As a system 
    administrator, or if you are lucky to be able to find and afford one, a 
    security specialist, we all use TOOLS to make our jobs easier, and more 
    efficient.  If I employ an IDS to catch some of the soft net noise hackers, 
    then it has saved me time and made me more efficient.  Sure, I could sit 
    and write my own scripts to do the same thing.  Heck, I bet I could even 
    learn to make a nice little GUI for it too.  If I had the time that is, and 
    my employer was willing to accept lower productivity because I was writing 
    code, instead of performing my daily tasks.  Unfortunately, few of us can 
    have that luxury.
    
    IDS systems, even with their flaws and vulnerabilities, still have a place 
    right along side the firewalls, routers, virus checkers tools we use today 
    in order to keep the electronic monster on a leash.
    
    Think about it, I used to think those electronic pets were stupid gimmicks, 
    then I sat down with my firewall this morning and looked back at all the 
    care and feeding it requires.  Who's the fool?
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From:	Sheila Or Bob (depends on who is writing) [SMTP:shsrmsat_private]
    Sent:	Saturday, April 18, 1998 9:29 AM
    To:	Nicholas Charles Brawn
    Cc:	firewall-wizardsat_private
    Subject:	Re: how to do intrusion detection right
    
    Nicholas Charles Brawn wrote:
    >
    > Would you then not run the risk of attackers masking hostile traffic by
    > making it appear to look "expected"?
    >
    > Nicholas Brawn
    
    Exactly!  The gabriel and other scan detectors are easily defeated by a
    patient low level attack - spread things over a time period that is
    beyond their threshhold, do things aperiodically.
    Sometimes humans can discern something is out of the ordinary.
    Sometimes they can't.
    
    In the event of establishing a profile of the net "what is normal
    traffic" with a new IDS, they can be confused with what I call white
    noise.  so that things look like they are expected!
    bob
    
    >
    > --
    > Email: ncb05at_private
    > Nicholas Brawn - Computer Science Undergraduate, University of 
    Wollongong.
    >
    > On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, George J. Dolicker wrote:
    >
    > > I think perhaps what the intrusion detection system might do is not 
    look
    > > for something "interesting", but rather something "different".  Rather 
    than
    > > trying to define what is a problem, define what is NOT a problem... so
    > > configure the IDS to smile upon traffic that is expected, and panic 
    over
    > > anything else.
    > >
    > > Same principal we use in firewalling:  that which is not explictly
    > > permitted is denied.
    > >
    > > G.
    > >
    > > At 12:02 PM 4/16/98 MDT, Martin W Freiss wrote:
    > > >When the administrator can tailor the IDS to unacceptable/interesting
    > > >stuff on the net, what he does is transfer his own mindset about 
    security
    > > >to the IDS. I then have a machine that "thinks" like me, which thus 
    alerts
    > > >me about facts that I am already aware of - a useful thing that may 
    save
    > > >some work, but will not help me notice next week's bug being 
    exploited.
    > > >
    > > >I may be stupid, but what is "interesting" is something I do not know
    > > >before an intrusion attempt.
    > > >Tomorrow's attack may use some technique that is "obviously" safe 
    today,
    > > >thus bypassing my (human or computer) filtering layer. Using a 
    sufficiently
    > > >"new" technique, my firewall will probably not notice that it has been
    > > >broached. What _can_ help me is having a complete log of everything 
    that
    > > >has been going through the network, which I can then analyze to 
    understand
    > > >what has happened. An intrusion analysis system, if you will - which
    > > >so far includes a large human component.
    > > >
    > > >-Martin
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    
    --
    real address is shsrms at erols dot com
    The Herbal Gypsy and the Tinker.
    



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