RE: maybe a simple problem

From: Clayton Hoskinson (claytonat_private)
Date: Sat Oct 05 2002 - 06:08:56 PDT

  • Next message: Erik Sperling Johansen: "Re: W2K Compromise - PipeCmdSrv"

    Ghost will do a forensic image depending on the version you are using
    the switches are different.  In 2002 the switches are -ir and  -fnf, in
    2003 the switch is -ia there is a text file that explains the switches
    and their use with Norton I would read that to determine which ones to
    use depending on the version you are using.  Of course do some testing
    to make sure you are creating a true forensic image.
    
    Clayton
    
    
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: george.wasgattat_private [mailto:george.wasgattat_private]
    > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:48 AM
    > To: SRobinsonat_private; george.wasgattat_private;
    > greg.reberat_private; afison@brit-tex.net;
    > incidentsat_private
    > Subject: RE: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > 
    > You are surely right, and if I had actually thought it though before
    > writing
    > I would have remembered.  A normal GHOST image doesn't bother backing
    up
    > unused space just the stuff the file system says is in use.  And yes,
    > there
    > is a bit by bit option that I've had to use when there was a damaged
    file
    > system or corrupt disk sectors were encountered.
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Robinson, Sonja [mailto:SRobinsonat_private]
    > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:22 AM
    > To: 'george.wasgattat_private'; greg.reberat_private;
    > afison@brit-tex.net; incidentsat_private
    > Subject: RE: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > 
    > I'm not sure if the newest version does a bit by bit copy.  I can't
    > remember
    > the switch off hand either since we never used it in my work for a
    > forensics
    > tool.  However, I can try to find it as I believe it DOES have the
    > physical
    > capability.  Historically, Ghost produced a logical "image or mirror"
    of
    > the
    > drive, it was not a forensic "bit by bit" copy.  It only did a logical
    > image
    > unless specfically told otherwise, i.e. a physical bit copy.  For
    example,
    > a
    > core build using GHOST was used to roll out 100 workstattions.  The
    > physical
    > drive size in each machine could vary say from 12GB to 20GB, howver,
    the
    > GHOST image was 6GB so this would be your logical drive.  Howver,
    > forensically speaking, this is not your TRUE drive that must be
    copied.
    > There could be 6-14GB difference and could present issues in court
    since
    > you
    > now don't have the "original" drive.
    > 
    > You must be careful when doing a copy that may have potential
    litligation
    > issues, civil or criminal.  A logical copy of the drive (normally what
    you
    > get using ghost) while this is good for productin is NOT good for
    > forensics.
    > You must make sure that you can recreate deleted files and obtain the
    > miriad
    > of pieces located in swap, unallocated and free space onthe ENTIRE
    > physical
    > drive not just the logical pieces.
    > 
    > Safeback, snapback, encase etc have stood up in court.  I am not sure
    > about
    > GHOST.  It could if you have that switch (which I can't remember w/o
    some
    > research) and you can prove that the physical copy from GHOST is
    identical
    > to that of the original drive, i.e # of sectors, bits, etc.  Suggested
    you
    > hash the drives using MD5 hash or similar.  Even using safeback, etc.
    you
    > should still verify that you have made the forensic copy not the
    logical
    > copy as they give you options to do so.
    > 
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: george.wasgattat_private [mailto:george.wasgattat_private]
    > Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 7:36 AM
    > To: Robinson, Sonja; greg.reberat_private;
    > afison@brit-tex.net; incidentsat_private
    > Subject: RE: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > What is the certain switch in GHOST and why is it necessary.  I
    thought
    > that
    > GHOST defaults produced a saved copy of the disk drive bit by bit the
    same
    > as the original.
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Robinson, Sonja [mailto:SRobinsonat_private]
    > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:04 PM
    > To: 'Greg Reber'; Andrew Fison; incidentsat_private
    > Subject: RE: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > 
    > IF you alter the files onthe machine they will not hold up in court.
    You
    > must do a bit level back up which is normally done using a tool such
    as
    > safeback, snapback, encase ,etc.  You canuse Ghost if you have a
    certain
    > switch set but I would not suggest it.  Normally you must be
    physically
    > present to do so.
    > 
    > 1)  DO not boot the machine or do a back up.  You may destroy the
    files
    > and
    > evidence you need by doing so
    > 2)  Using an approved FORENSIC method/tool (safeback, snapback,
    encase,
    > SOloMasster, etc.  Make TWO forensic copies.  1 for them to put back
    in
    > their machine and 1 for you to use as a back up to restore as many
    times
    > as
    > necessary if you are going drive to drive.  If oyu are using a non-
    > intrusive
    > means of analysis such as encase then you can do analysis on this
    drive as
    > long AS YOU KEEP THE ORIGINAL COPY IN CUSTODY.  I always suggest and
    > original and a forensic copy (unused) just in case a drive fails.
    > 
    > Depending upon the cost (and potential loss), Ontrack can grabthe
    stuff
    > remotely for you.  Depends onwhat it's worth to your client.
    > 
    > E-mail me off line for more info.  I specialize in forensics.
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Greg Reber [mailto:greg.reberat_private]
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 9:16 PM
    > To: Andrew Fison; incidentsat_private
    > Subject: RE: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > 
    > Andrew - if there is a suspicion that the client's machine has been
    > compromised, they should stop using it and have you do some quick
    > forensics.
    > Back up files that they need, but not the whole HD.
    > http://biatchux.dmzs.com/ is a great site for free forensics tools.
    > 
    > -greg
    > 
    > The information in this email is likely confidential and may be
    legally
    > privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this
    email
    > by
    > anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient,
    any
    > disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be
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    > in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
    > 
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Andrew Fison [mailto:afison@brit-tex.net]
    > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 2:37 AM
    > To: incidentsat_private
    > Subject: maybe a simple problem
    > 
    > I have a client who believes that thier win98 pc has been hacked with
    some
    > remote control software. They are pretty vague and not close buy so i
    > cannot
    > look at the machine all the time. I asked them to do netstat when they
    > think
    > they are being spied on but as yet they have not given me anything
    useful.
    > 
    > I think there is reason to believe them as the owner is involed in a
    > hostile
    > boardroom take over of his company by some other entities, whilst this
    is
    > legal, they have used other underhand methods against my customer
    before
    > and
    > they are trying to force him to sign over the business to them a
    little
    > too
    > swiftly.
    > 
    > this all started when his wife was suing the pc, and a telescop came
    on
    > the
    > screen and then disapeared, since then the machine crashes, documents
    > pertaing to the business have  gone missing etc, any clues to what
    this
    > telescope could be?
    > 
    > yours
    > 
    > andrew
    > 
    > 
    > 
    >
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