Re: Assurance, permissiveness, and restriction

From: sarnoldat_private
Date: Mon Jun 04 2001 - 14:17:22 PDT

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: permissive vs. restrictive issue and solutions..."

    Titus, these are just some nit-picking thoughts.
    
    On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 01:37:14PM -0700, Titus D. Winters wrote:
    > But if something substandard that is going to have to be extended
    > again is _can't_ demonstrate a need for security needs to watch the
    > news from time to time), and show that it isn't harmful, it should not
    > be impossible to accomplish.
    
    Consider though, that security is orthogonal to the security module work
    we are conducting here. For months (years?), people have created good
    security plugins that enhance the security of the standard linux kernel.
    (Yes, years. I recall one job interview where the interviewer and I
    spent most of our time talking about an ACL system he added to the 0.9x
    kernel series years ago.)
    
    Our job here is to make a modular system that frees kernel security
    enhancement authors from tracking the kernel's minute version changes.
    That, and make a fashion for plugging enhanced security modules into
    system default kernels, to tailor the security policy to each individual
    site.
    
    > If it just takes a knockdown drag out flamewar on the main kernel dev
    > list, then that's what it takes, but we need to put out the best
    > version of this that we can.
    
    I fear that if a flamewar is started, this project will stop there.
    Frankly, the whole thing is much easier than that. We need to convince
    Linus, Alan, and others interested in the whole deal that what we have
    done is worthwhile. If they agree, they put it in the kernel. No
    flamewar required. [1] 
    
    Especially when one considers the wide announcement of this list.
    Interested parties have had plenty of opportunities to join this list
    with their comments and suggestions for new directions. (The list
    announcement made it to slashdot for crying out loud. :)
    
    Reasoned arguments always work better than flamewars. :)
    
    > I think we need to worry about the technical obstacles (developing the
    > durned thing) more than let our theoretical concerns about political
    > issues govern our contribution.
    
    I don't think we should discount either. Political concerns are a
    reality. Any conservative kernel developer is more likely to accept
    (emotionally, at least) smaller changes than larger changes. I would
    guess most would be amenable to far-ranging changes if it is clear that
    the far-ranging changes *look* and *feel* right, and we are convincing
    when we claim that we have studied the 'correctness' of the proposed
    change.
    
    
    [1]: The kernel they will put it into will be labelled 2.5 anyway; I
    don't think we will have a difficult time with the "add-on" sale that
    jmjones was mentioning in the 2.5 series, though I think we would have
    immense trouble in a 2.4 or 2.6 series. :)
    
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