Re: Legitimate Question

From: Russell Coker (russellat_private)
Date: Thu Jan 24 2002 - 17:58:49 PST

  • Next message: Russell Coker: "Re: panic"

    On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:30, jmjonesat_private wrote:
    > Um, the only problem I have is getting the executable I write to be "full
    > permission" on a variety of systems.
    
    Write in the documentation "if installing on an LSM, GRSecurity, or other 
    security enhanced kernel then make sure that the installation program has 
    full system administration rights and that the SUID root program named 
    /usr/bin/fsckmeharder gets such rights when it's run".
    
    > I guess it would be appropriate for it to be set the same priority via DTE
    > or module-manual methods as the executable being installed, but I am
    > somewhat uncertain as to how this can be done in a "cross-module" manner.
    
    It can't as different modules do different things.  Also note that LSM is not 
    the only method of adding extra security to Linux, it's just the most 
    publicised through the NSA SE Linux work that goes into it.
    
    Anyone can make a system that operates differently with some small kernel 
    patches.  They could even mount the file system in question as "nosuid".  
    Running a Unix system with all file systems mounted nosuid should be possible.
    
    > Any advice would be useful, or any modifications to the LSM interface that
    > would support it would be useful.  I know that "having knowledge" of
    > permissions are specifically out-spec, but
    
    The NSA SE Linux work includes patches to common programs such as stat.
    
    I have attached the result of stat'ing some binaries on one of my SE Linux 
    systems.  However you have to note that my stat is a port of the NSA changes 
    to the Debian stat (which may have different formatting to the Red Hat stat 
    that the NSA ships).  Also the results tell you what context the files are 
    in, but not what that context allows.
    
    > Wouldn't it be more useful to be able, in a standard-interface sort of
    > way, to be able to temporarily give an INSTALL type script/application the
    > same permissions as another application (the installed software) would
    > get? Call a hook with the name of the application as installed, for
    > example, and require the module to assign "cloned" permissions?
    
    Sure, there's a program in the SE Linux called "newrole" that runs in a 
    similar fashion to /bin/su but for changing security contexts.
    
    The following should do it:
    newrole sysadm_r
    # now we have a shell with the sysadm_r:
    /mnt/cd/install
    
    > In essence, a standard way to communicate to the module to "interpret my
    > permissions as if I was XYZ"... leaving it to the module to determine if
    > the test program has a right to ask that?
    >
    > I think this sort of thing might be necessary for LSM to be generally
    > accepted.
    
    I don't think that good security will ever be generally accepted.  Security 
    always involves inconveniances.  Whenever you lock a door there's a chance 
    that you'll forget the key when you want to open it.
    
    Being able to do "su -" and have complete access to the entire system is 
    incredably conveniant.  This is why until recently many Linux users used to 
    have root as the only account they ever used.  This is why most commercial 
    system programs will only run as root, and why many commercial applications 
    install directories mode 777 (one application I know of has root cron jobs 
    running programs from a mode 777 directory).
    
    If you don't want security then that's your decision.  But you won't convince 
    anyone on this list in a hurry.
    
    -- 
    http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/     Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
    http://www.coker.com.au/postal/       Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
    http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on
    http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/     My home page
    
    
    

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