Re: Legitimate Question

From: jmjonesat_private
Date: Mon Jan 28 2002 - 16:16:10 PST

  • Next message: Crispin Cowan: "Re: Legitimate Question"

    On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Stephen Smalley wrote:
    
    > Not to disagree with your basic point, but please note that many packages
    > do not require any particular privilege in order to function, and will run
    > fine on a more restrictive system like SELinux without any need for policy
    > customization.  If you are installing a package that does require some
    > kind of privilege, then you will naturally need to customize your policy,
    > whether you simply associate the package with an existing security domain
    > that is suitable or whether you define an entirely new security domain for
    > it.
    
    You know, it's hard to be concise here since I'm really NOT a "security
    specialist" and the words and phrases I use are oft misunderstood because
    I'm on the outside.  I'll try, but, um... *g*  I'm not "good and ... high
    on crack (never even seen the stuff, too old)", please bear with me...
    
    Things I've had to remind myself when considering this
    issue, which may be helpful to others:
    
    1) As Mr. Smalley says, most applications never ask for anything
    questionable anyway...  and a security policy that makes "normal things"
    questionable might be just a tad insanely restrictive and, in that case,
    it'll be on a very special system with a very narrow purpose.  The
    assumption, really, is all in Mr. Smalley's (not to single him out, but
    his, mine, yours, ours) concept of "particular privilege."  That is most
    DEFINITELY not portable between secure systems. 
    
    2) It is likely that only a minority subset of even server systems will
    ever run an LSM module, and even those that do will probably run the most
    widely known and fully understood module (KUDOS to SELinux for being so
    early into the fray as to be grandfathered (intentional dumb statement to
    get other module developers thinking.) The result being that there will
    still be a "favoured strategy" to address for application designers. 
    
    This seems to support Mr. Coker's line of reasoning, somewhat.  Maybe
    we'll all have to "mimic" /etc/flask or extend it as a group as things
    develop.
    
    3) The likelihood will be that there will be "de facto" solutions
    to this problem, such as the adoption of a standard "policy query API"
    among many developers as the installed base of security-enhanced systems
    via LSM grows.  New modules many simply be more attractive if they mimic
    solutions made for, say, SELinux systems, in the future.
    
    4) This is really NOT within the bounds of the LSM interface, as I
    understand it.  I was questioning, originally, if it might be
    possible to devise a solution here, and have been assured/convinced
    that there is no such possibility.
    
    A new "niche" has evolved if LSM doesn't want or need to address this in
    the interface... creating tools that are multi-module useful for just this
    purpose.  I might take a crack at some of it myself, actually.  Thanks.
    
    ********
    
    Since this is a bit "beyond the pale" here (that's the response I've
    synthesized from the responses to this thread, correct me if I'm wrong),
    is there someplace else where people are or will be working on this, or is
    it still an appropriate topic for discussion here?  I know Mr. Coker is
    working on it, and his solutions seem to be a very good first approach,
    although somewhat assumptive of a certain module, but I have a few dozen
    distributions I'd like to try porting to this "thinking" just to see how
    it works out. 
    
    Sincerely,
    J. Melvin Jones
     
    
    
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    ||  J. MELVIN JONES            jmjonesat_private 
    |>------------------------------------------------------
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