Re: New stacker performance results

From: serue@private
Date: Thu May 26 2005 - 06:07:11 PDT


Quoting Karl MacMillan (kmacmillan@private):
> > A few years ago, while I was still working on DTE, I was contacted by
> > someone who ran a large web-cgi farm.  He wanted to know whether DTE
> > could be used to satisfy his security goals.  In particular, he had 100k
> > users who could use a few global cgi scripts, but once they ran cgi
> > scripts under their own directory, those scripts should only be able to
> > access files under their own home directory, with a few predefined
> > exceptions.  In addition it shouldn't be "hard" to add or remove users.
> > 
> > To express this in TE would require a very large policy, with policy
> > reloads for user add/remove.  In contrast, a very simple LSM (dirjail)
> > was able to express the policy efficiently.
> > 
> 
> This could be done with a single constraint as Colin mentioned elsewhere in this
> thread.

I assume you're suggesting a constraint on u1!=u2.  (which would
still require 100k selinux users...  you'd know better than I how 
much space that takes, I haven't looked)

I don't think that could work.  All the user directories were
nfs-mounted and owned by the same uid/gid.

> Is the policy reload really a problem?

I assume it was.  After I explained the lsm I had in mind, the guy
decided he wanted to roll his own.  (Don't we all :)  So I have no
idea what he ended up doing or how the situation has changed.

> > To take away this kind of flexibility from people actually trying to
> > install real systems should not be done lightly.
> >
> 
> I understand the argument as:
> 
> a) TE / current SELinux policy language can be used to express many security
> goals and is a good choice as a general purpose language.

I don't argue this.

Though many people do.  (And please don't disregard that - I also
consider vi a very good editor, but we can't force people to use it
just because it has all the features one might need)

> b) If TE is not appropriate other policy models can be implemented as new
> security servers.

Sure, they can.  Or, they can be implemented as LSMs.  We could also
implement RSBAC as a security server under selinux under LSM.  Then
we could say that because you can implement jail under RSBAC, you
should never do it under selinux or as an LSM.

> So no one is, I think, really arguing for limiting flexibility - this is more
> about implementation strategy.

I understand.  And I think there will be far less resistance to that
once (a) someone implements alternate (or stackable :) security
servers other than MLS (which isn't really an alternate ss) and/or
(b) some of the improved policy tools finally come to be.

-serge



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