RE: [logs] hack attempts && price

From: H C (keydet89at_private)
Date: Wed Feb 20 2002 - 19:23:24 PST

  • Next message: gary.smithat_private: "[logs] RE: I need a solution"

    > Sure, but what I'm trying to get at is the level of
    > social pressure on sysadmins. 
    
    I tend to agree with what you said, but I'm not clear
    on the 'social pressure' issue.  To me, if the manager
    now knows what to ask the admins, then that's
    professional pressure.
     
    > > I teach a 2-day, hands-on incident response course
    > for
    > > NT/2K.  I've had folks ask be during the course,
    > "why
    > > would someone want to break into my computer??"
    > 
    > And, briefly, what do you tell them?
    
    For the most part, b/c they can.  The vast majority of
    infrastructures I've seen...as a consultant as well as
    a manager...are not capable of preventing or detecting
    incidents.  When I was at Winstar, the data center got
    hit massively by 'tagged' FTP directories, sadmin/IIS,
    etc.  In that particular case, it was due to
    incompetence.  However, many kiddies and malicious
    crackers get in b/c they can.  Some will use the
    machine they take over as a jumping off point for
    other attacks/DoS.  Very few remain stealthy and
    quiet.
      
    > Its a cultural thing. I think that its something
    > that
    > has to seep into our body of common knowledge, as
    > things
    > to do with other technologies have seeped in.
    
    Again, it used to be, w/ the Unix admins.  Now that
    the GUI is used on so many systems to remove the admin
    from real administration, and 'protect him' from the
    inner workings of the system, we've seen the fallout. 
    
    
    > Nowadays, after quite some time, our cultural
    > awareness
    > of the hazards of radiation have improved. The same
    > will
    > happen WRT computer 'stuff'
    
    <sigh> you'd think that in the year '02, there would
    be some awareness... 
    
    > From my perspective, it shouldn't have been down for
    > two days,
    > but my role was purely diagnostic and I had no
    > control over
    > the process of rebuilding the system.
    
    Based on what you've said, I'd agree.  After all, I
    saw kiddies scanning FTP servers for months (in a
    post-mordem log review), successfully logging in as
    Anonymous and running 'mkdir' and 'rmdir' commands.  A
    simple review of this would have prevented system
    crashes, massive consumption of bandwidth, and having
    to clean up 6 GB - 10 GB of pirated
    software/movies/porn.
      
    > I told the general manager that their admins had
    > absolutely NO
    > excuse for letting things get that far; the log
    > entries
    > were very clear. I think they got a rocket up them.
    > 8)
    
    I guess the question now is this...had the manager
    been tasking the admins with such activity (ie, log
    review, etc) all along, and the admins reporting 'all
    clear'?  Or had the manager not (directly or
    indirectly) tasked the admins, nor provided training,
    etc?
    
    After all, isn't it the manager that determines what
    the admin does w/ his time?  The manager can say that
    helpdesk activities and keeping machines up are more
    important than security.
    
    > It could easily have been prevented by maintaining
    > an up-to-date
    > sshd. This was a well known exploit that even script
    > kiddies could have 
    
    Such is the way of many 'hacks'.  Some of my favorites
    are blank 'sa' passwords on SQL servers, blank or
    easily guessed NT passwords w/ port 139/445 open to
    the Internet, etc.
    
    
    
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