RE: RE: PIX and ttl

From: Filipe Almeida (filipeat_private)
Date: Mon May 28 2001 - 07:58:15 PDT

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    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: pen-test-return-93-filipe=ist.utl.ptat_private
    [mailto:pen-
    > test-return-93-filipe=ist.utl.ptat_private] On Behalf Of
    Fernando
    > Cardoso
    > Sent: domingo, 27 de Maio de 2001 21:02
    > To: jlewisat_private
    > Cc: 'Jacek Lipkowski'; PEN-TESTat_private
    > Subject: Re: RE: PIX and ttl
    > 
    > NMAP scans for hosts beyond "stateful aware" firewalls is quite
    > difficult. The first problem lies in the firewall design. If a packet
    > is not in the connection table and it's not a SYN packet it is simply
    > droped. The other problem is TCP options. Most firewalls will drop
    > those packets also.
    > 
    > In a recent pen-test I realize that Win 2k hosts beyond a PIX, would
    > only respond to NMAP test #5, the only one that uses a standard SYN,
    > while if those boxes where outside the filtered network, they would
    > reply to all 8 tests.
    >
    	And if you are using some kind of SynDefender even the SYN
    packets may be generated by the firewall, depending on the SynDefender
    method you are using.
    
    > The work around is break in and NMAP from the internal network ;)
    
    	Another option is to do some research on the possibility of
    doing fingerprinting on the other TCP states (ESTABILISHED, FIN_WAIT,
    ...).
    	A method I use to discover windows machines behind a statefull
    aware firewall with syndefender is to create ESTABILISHED connections
    and analyze the ip.id increments. This analysis can be expanded to other
    fields of the packets and other states by doing some research.
    	Perhaps a fingerprinting system that uses traces from a tcpdump
    session? anyone?
    
    --
    Filipe Almeida filipeat_private
    Aka LiquidK
    Administração da Rede das Novas Licenciaturas
    



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