Re: Security Audit

From: H Carvey (keydet89at_private)
Date: Thu Sep 06 2001 - 05:08:14 PDT

  • Next message: Todd Ransom: "Re: Security Audit"

    > > A good estimate of time for a "Once Over"
    breaks down like this:
    
    I can't imagine anyone doing a "once over", but I
    am sure that there are customers out there 
    willing to pay for such a thing.
    
    > What is the difference between vuln assessment
    and pen test?
    
    From my experience:
    
    Pen test: conducted from the outside, designed to
    simulate a sophisticated attacker, but in 
    a compressed time frame.  Even with proper
    contract wording in place, it's only real value
    is to test the reactions of your IR team (assuming
    you have one), or to see if your sysadmins
    notice anything.
    
    Vuln Assessment:  Conducted internally, with the
    full cooperation of the admins.  Host
    information is retrieved, as well as segment,
    network, and infrastructure data (configs from
    perimeter devices, RAS devices, etc.)  This
    information is analyzed on a per-host basis,
    as well as an infrastructure-level basis, to
    provide a complete picture.  For even more
    relevance, policies are reviewed and key personnel
    are interviewed.  A tour of the facilities 
    may also be conducted to view the layout, physical
    and personnel security measures, 
    etc.
    
    > I have not done either but this seems like a
    highly subjective area to me.
    
    It is.  
    
    > Are you really going to do a vuln assess on a
    dynamic web site - with all
    > its custom scripts and database connectivity and
    possibly middleware - in 20
    > minutes?  
    
    No, of course not.  In many cases, code reviews
    are additional.  Otherwise, throw whisker at
    it and see what you get back.
    
    > It sounds like a vuln assess consists of running
    Nessus or
    > something similar, searching bugtraq archives
    and possibly throwing in a
    > google search for extra credit.
    
    Some folks don't even go that far.
     
    > Even on a workstation it seems like you couldn't
    get much done in 20
    > minutes.  I don't even see how you could
    reliably enumerate all the
    > installed software in less than 20 minutes.
    
    Actually, yes you can.  I've written code that
    will pull the entire configuration from a system...
    Registry settings, permissions on various objects
    (Reg keys, files, directories, etc), network
    settings, installed software, etc, etc, etc...in
    20 minutes or less.  But that is only the
    collection of
    this raw data.  Analysis of that data, plus
    analysis of all of the data from all systems examined,
    takes much longer than that.  
    
    The collection of data will take longer if you
    want you to completely comprehensive.  If you find
    a FAT file system on an NT/2K system, then your
    time is reduced dramatically.  However, let's 
    say you wish to include searches for alternate
    data streams, hidden files, and want to dump the 
    EventLogs, as well.  All this takes time, and the
    more data you collect, the more time it takes for 
    analysis.
    
    What I'm referring to above is not running Nessus
    or (gawd forbid) ISS.  It's collecting raw
    configuration data from systems, and analyzing it.
     Commercial scanning tools must decide upon
    an arbitrary level of security...one that doesn't
    take router and firewall ACLs, NAT'd networks, 
    VLANs, etc, into account.  Also, my experience
    with ISS (5.8 - 6.01) has shown that it will return 
    some false positives that can be very embarrassing
    to the consultant group, and potentially 
    have an effect on the credibility of the company.
     So rather than run one or more commercial 
    tools that are just going to give me a list of
    vulnerabilities, I prefer to collect the raw data, and
    conduct the analysis.  Most folks are going to say
    that doing so takes longer, and you're 
    correct.  However, taking longer to provide a
    deliverable that is meaningful to the customer 
    is acceptable.  Dumping the ISS report to Word and
    printing it on company letterhead (and
    yes, there are companies that still do that) does
    nothing and adds no value for the customer.
    
    With the available commercial tools, and even the
    freeware ones, the differentiator for 
    consulting businesses is the analysis conducted.
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This list is provided by the SecurityFocus Security Intelligence Alert (SIA)
    Service. For more information on SecurityFocus' SIA service which
    automatically alerts you to the latest security vulnerabilities please see:
    https://alerts.securityfocus.com/
    



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Sep 06 2001 - 10:15:14 PDT