RE: WinPac 2.0

From: Mike Shaw (mshawat_private)
Date: Fri Jan 11 2002 - 15:07:18 PST

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    http://www.cardacc.com/cards.htm
    
    To my knowledge there is no information (location, company code, etc)--at 
    least I've never specified it in ordering the cards nor in the software 
    when we set it up initially.  It's just a number.  I still don't know if 
    you can request a range or something...might take some social engineering 
    "yeah, company X next door has the 25000 range...can we get 26000 for 
    simplicity?"
    
    A EE buddy of mine works at a Web based surveillance camera company who is 
    moving into the proximity card area.  When he gets his hands on that stuff 
    we were going to take a look at how it operates at the hardware level.  I 
    think it's similar to the shoplifting alarm deals you see at wal-mart, 
    etc.  Wouldn't that be cool to have a fake plant or something that was 
    secretly harvesting proximity card numbers?  Or what if you had a little 
    device that would sniff them from a few feet away and then mimic them?
    
    There are some ISO standards (see 14443 on 
    http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueListPage.CatalogueList?ICS1=35&ICS2=240&ICS3=15) 
    but I haven't seen where the NC system complies with that or any other 
    standard.  I doubt they are smart cards, but I hope they are using some 
    sort of cryptography in the protocol.  I wouldn't be surprise if the cards 
    just spit a number out somehow though.
    
    -Mike
    
    
    At 03:59 PM 1/11/2002 -0600, Magnus Ullberg wrote:
    >Thanks, good info.
    >
    >What I was wondering is whether i could order a card with the same number as
    >another card and get access to what that card has access to.
    >Or if there is aditional info stored on the card (location, unique company
    >code, etc.) to prevent that.
    >The cards here were bought in two different batches, one is in the 26000
    >range and the other in a much lower range. I dont know if you can specify
    >the range when you order them, but if you can i thought that if i could get
    >the number of the back of a admin card i could gain  access to the building.
    >
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: Mike Shaw [mailto:mshawat_private]
    >Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 2:57 PM
    >To: Magnus Ullberg; 'pen-testat_private'
    >Subject: Re: WinPac 2.0
    >
    >
    >Interesting that you should mention this, because I just worked with
    >someone who put a system like this in.
    >
    >  From what I could tell, the 5 digit number on the card is the only
    >identifier, although I think it's pretty difficult to replicate these
    >cards.  I've wondered about collisions, but I guess until you got upwards
    >of 5-10 thousand employees, the chances of a collision/birthday effect are
    >low.  It would be interesting to see if you could request a certain number
    >from a distributor.
    >
    >Some further interesting info form the northern site
    >(http://www.nciaccessworld.com):
    >"The default login and password are: Log In = Admin Password = (leave
    >blank) no password If the default login and password are no longer in the
    >software please contact Northern Computers technical support so a
    >technician can instruct you how to send the database to Northern Computers
    >so we can reset it to default for you. "
    >       and....
    >"The defualt passwords for WIN-PAK are: login = SYSTEM password = startup
    >These passwords are case sensitive. "
    >
    >There are also manuals there if you need them.  The product is based of an
    >access database, so I can't imagine that snagging the password would be
    >that difficult if it's not a default password.  If the workstation is
    >accessible from the network, or it's physically insecure, there may be some
    >leverage there too.
    >
    >-Mike
    >
    >At 11:22 AM 1/11/2002 -0600, Magnus Ullberg wrote:
    > >Anybody have information about Win-Pac 2.0?
    > >It is the system used to control doors and manage proximity cards.
    > >Each card has a 5 digit number on it. Anybody know if that number is the
    > >only thing that identifies the card or if there
    > >is some additional info on the card.
    > >
    > >Thanks,
    > >Magnus Ullberg
    > >Network Coordinator
    > >
    > >
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