And a response from a sympathetic-to-Microsoft Politech member: >Jesus Declan even on it's face, this is ridiculous, isn't it? am I >missing something? They're stealing software because they can't afford >it and Microsoft is the bad guy? Previous Politech articles on this topic: http://www.politechbot.com/p-02264.html http://www.politechbot.com/p-02261.html ******** From: Adam Nash <adamat_private> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 04:06:52 GMT Subject: Re: Microsoft threatens children's charity To: declanat_private CC: ncochraneat_private, "Gesie Di Sciascio" <gesieat_private> Hi Declan, I work for com.IT (Community IT Project) in Melbourne. We recycle old, unwanted and unused computers and redistribute them for free to community groups and non-profit organisations, as well as providing IT skills training to unemployed and disadvantaged members of the community, and technical support to community organisations. Our website is currently being updated, but a rather outdated site is available at http://www.vicnet.net.au/~comit I would like to relate our experiences as regards licensed software. We have given out over 500 computers and monitors to some 62 organisations in the last 18 months alone. The problem that we have always faced is that we can give away the computers but we cannot load Windows onto the computer unless the recipient has a valid license. A very valid point that you raised was Why Not Load Linux? I myself am a committed Linux user (for two reasons: I like getting my work actually done, and I am a dyed-in-the-wool Knowledge-Is-Power worker and believe that open source is the only practical course to a more equitable world - I am typing this mail in StarOffice on RedHat 7.1), but the large majority of the computers we receive are very low-end: mainly 386 and 486 machines. The unfortunate fact is that nearly all of our recipients, being non-technical people who only want a computer to do admin etc, want a windowed environment, but Xwindows (as much as I love it) will not run on anything less than a Pentium with 32Mb of RAM and a 2Mb video card (and even then it will groan). ComputerBank, who you mentioned in the article, know this and therefore tend to work only with Pentium-level machines. Consequently we refer most of our recipients to the Microsoft Community Assistance Initiative, whereby MS will donate licenses to community organisations up to a value of $10,000 (approx 130 licenses). This way-less-than-ideal situation is the only practical solution for most of our recipients. Of course, there are various different approaches to this Xwindows problem (most significantly XDM and Beowulf, both of which we are continuing to investigate, especially for the organisations in the third world from whom we are receiving an increasing number of requests. We also have had limited success using BlackBox, and we are also investigating this further), but the vast majority of our recipient organisations run on a shoestring budget with a volunteer staff of one or two non-technical people who are already overworked and therefore have no time to learn the intricacies of such technologies. For ourselves, we have never been so naïve as to think that our registered charity status would make Microsoft ignore unlicensed copying and distribution of their software, and consequently have always operated strictly within the law on this issue. In fact, we are so sensitive to it (we are in the business of helping small organisations, not battling corporate behemoths) that we use FreeDOS (www.freedos.org) to boot up the recycled machines, and so that the recipients can install their licensed copy of Windows with a minimum of hassle. Naturally, we provide help with installation to those that can't do it themselves. One day, we will live in a world where corporations take responsibility for their impact on society, but until that day comes it makes sense to operate within the law (whether one considers the law fair or not) using practical solutions, so as to continue to help the needy sectors of our community. I hope this mail is a positive contribution to this discussion. Feel free to contact me if you require any more information on our organisation. Yours, Adam Nash adamat_private ph: 61-3-94162604 fax:61-3-94160663 115 Hoddle St, Collingwood, Vic, 3066 ******** From: Adam Nash <adamat_private> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:48:29 GMT Message-ID: <20010718.7482900at_private> Subject: Re: Microsoft threatens children's charity To: ncochraneat_private CC: declanat_private Thanks for your reply, Nathan. I realised after I posted the mail that I had confused who wrote what. I actually didn't know that MS refused licenses for 3.1 and DOS. The closest I got to finding out was a very very frustrating conversation with a lawyer at Barbara Bridges & Assoc (MS australia's legal reps) in which I was told, and I quote, "Windows 3.1 doesn't exist anymore" and "DOS hasn't existed for years". Another pearl from that conversation was her reply to my question about whether it was legal for us to put Windows3.1 on several hundred computers that we are sending to Kenya and Zambia: "but how would you do that, have you got hundreds of copies lying around have you?". Nathan, we would be delighted if you could find the time to come and visit our organisation to find out in more detail about what and how we do what we do. We have many current and planned activities that I am sure would be of interest to you. In the meantime, I'll keep you informed of our progress. Thanks again for your reply. Adam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 7/18/01, 1:57:23 PM, Nathan Cochrane <ncochraneat_private> wrote regarding Re: Microsoft threatens children's charity: > Thank you for cc'g me, Adam. > There may be some confusion about who said what on the Politech posting. > The comments were mine, not Declan's. > FWIW, and you doubtless already know this, MS has refused point blank to > allow people to use the older WFW 3.11 and DOS, which run on these > machines well. I used to run Windows 95 on a 486-66 with 16MB RAM, no > problems. That's out, also. MS won't even provide a license for these > obsolete systems. That could be a restraint of trade, and that's illegal > under the Trade Practices Act. > There are a number of charities worldwide that have been shut down by > Microsoft in the last year. PCs For Kids is just one. > I am interested to hear more from you in the future about your group's > activities. We ran a story on recyclers in the IT section the other day. > Thanks once again for your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated. > All the best > Nathan Cochrane > Deputy IT Editor > The Age > http://www.it.fairfax.com.au ********* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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