FC: Transcript of Ashcroft news conference on DNA samples, database

From: Declan McCullagh (declanat_private)
Date: Wed Aug 01 2001 - 21:25:01 PDT

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    News coverage: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/ap/20010801/pl/dna_backlog_4.html
    
    ---
    
    Attorney General News Conference
    August 1, 2001 at 12:15 p.m.
    
             ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Good morning. Let me begin by welcoming Orrin 
    Hatch and Chuck Schumer, two members of the Judiciary Committee in the 
    United States Senate, who are here from the Hill today to join me. And I 
    want to thank them for their efforts in creating the law that it will be 
    our job to enforce.
    
          DNA identification technology is one of the most important tools law 
    enforcement has developed since the advent of fingerprinting. Today I'm 
    announcing several actions by the Department of Justice to strengthen the 
    effectiveness of this powerful tool. The changes will expand the use of DNA 
    technology in the critical investigative stage of criminal cases, when the 
    chance of identifying criminals, protecting the innocent, and solving crime 
    is the greatest.
    
          DNA contains a person's genetic material. It's found in nearly every 
    cell in the human body, and except in the case of identical twins -- my 
    wife constantly reminds me that she and her sister are identical -- except 
    in those cases, each person's DNA is unique. This makes DNA analysis an 
    unparalleled law enforcement tool. When all the relevant genetic markers 
    contained in DNA are used, the reliability of the identification of the 
    perpetrator of a crime is 100 percent. In such cases, DNA
    analysis identifies the guilty party with absolute certainty, and that 
    certainty excludes all other persons.
    
          The Federal Bureau of Investigation administers the Combined DNA 
    Index System, or CODIS, a national computerized system which enables DNA 
    technology to be used for law enforcement and edification purposes. CODIS 
    integrates the information obtained under state DNA data systems and makes 
    it available on a nationwide basis by matching crime scene evidence to DNA 
    profiles of convicted offenders or to DNA found at the scenes of other 
    crimes. This system allows law enforcement to solve murders, rapes and 
    other serious crimes, which may be unsolvable by other investigative 
    methods. DNA analysis also gives us the ability to protect the innocent 
    from wrongful suspicion, accusation and conviction by excluding individuals 
    as the source of biological material left at the scene of a crime.
    
          Thus, in cases where testable evidence exists, DNA technology can 
    operate as a kind of truth machine, ensuring justice by identifying the 
    guilty and clearing the innocent.
    
          The system's effectiveness, however, depends on the amount of 
    information it contains and the ability to access and use that information. 
    Backlogs of unanalyzed DNA samples and unacceptable delays in analysis of 
    crime scene DNA evidence are now preventing full utilization of this 
    remarkable technology in solving crimes and promoting justice.
    
          It is estimated that over 180,000 rape kits -- this is collected DNA 
    -- sit in evidence storage lockers across the country, unanalyzed as DNA 
    evidence. Contributing to the urgency of the need to eliminate this backlog 
    is the fact that the time limit for prosecution may expire before the 
    evidence is analyzed, thereby permanently foreclosing prosecution for the 
    crime.
    
          Disturbingly, it has been reported that in many instances, police do 
    not even submit rape kits to crime labs when they have no suspect, because 
    they believe the evidence will never get analyzed. This is a missed 
    opportunity that is creating additional victims of brutal crimes. In one 
    recent case in Virginia Beach, police held a suspect on a shoplifting 
    charge whom they also suspected in the rape and stabbing of a woman. But 
    because of a backlog of some 1,000 other cases awaiting DNA analysis, the 
    evidence from the Virginia Beach crime scene was not analyzed before the 
    suspect, Christopher Banks (sp), was released on the shoplifting charge. 
    Eleven days later, he raped and killed 22-year-old Gemma Saunders (sp) in 
    Norfolk, Virginia. When the initial DNA evidence was eventually analyzed, 
    it revealed that Banks had, indeed, committed the Virginia Beach rape and 
    stabbing.
    
          In other cases, the failure to analyze and index DNA evidence in a 
    timely fashion has led to innocent people being wrongly accused of crimes. 
    In one case, a Virginia man spent six months in jail awaiting the DNA 
    analysis that absolved him of a rape with which he was charged. Had timely 
    DNA analysis been done, this man would not have lost six months of his life 
    to a mistaken accusation.
    
          To realize the remarkable potential of DNA technology, we must fully 
    incorporate it into the entire cycle of criminal investigation and 
    adjudication. Today I'm announcing a four-point initiative to improve the 
    use of DNA technology throughout the criminal justice system.
    
          Now, the first part of this initiative addresses the enormous backlog 
    of DNA evidence that awaits analysis in state forensic labs. The Department 
    of Justice is making available more than $30 million for assistance to the 
    states for reducing these backlogs and making this evidence available for 
    solving crimes. Over $16 million will be used for assistance to the states 
    in reducing their backlogs of unanalyzed convicted offender DNA samples.
    
          It is expected that approximately 500,000 samples will be analyzed 
    with those funds. In addition, $15 million will go to increasing the 
    state's capacity to analyze crime scene DNA samples in cases involving no 
    known suspects, resulting in thousands more samples analyzed. Backlogs of 
    rape kit DNA samples, for example, will be analyzed in order to solve 
    sexual assault cases in which there are no other leads as to the 
    perpetrator's identity. Through this funding, the long-term effects should 
    lead to solving thousands more rapes and murder cases.
    
          The second part of this initiative will help ensure the 
    comprehensiveness of our DNA identification system by adding samples from 
    federal convicted offenders to the DNA samples currently collected by the 
    states. In June, the Department of Justice issued a regulation to implement 
    provisions of the DNA Analysis Backlog Elimination Act, which authorized 
    the collection of DNA samples from an estimated 20(,000) to 30,000 federal, 
    District of Columbia and military offenders. This act of the Congress, 
    then, is a very important part of making sure that we have the completeness 
    or additional population in our
    database. The federal criminals from whom DNA samples will be collected 
    include persons convicted of various offenses involving murder, voluntary 
    manslaughter, sexual abuse, trafficking in persons, kidnapping, robbery, 
    burglary, or attempts to commit these crimes. In the last two weeks, 7,000 
    DNA sample kits have been sent to federal agencies responsible for DNA 
    sample collection, and the collection from federal offenders has begun.
    
          The third part of our DNA identification improvement plan is to 
    undertake system-wide improvements to CODIS, the national DNA 
    identification system. I am directing the FBI to carry out the changes in 
    the architecture and operations of CODIS that will enable it to accommodate 
    the system's foreseeable future needs and allow participating forensic labs 
    to obtain immediate electronic access to the system for the purpose of 
    solving crimes.
    
          Some of the solutions the FBI has proposed to these problems, and 
    which I endorse, include transforming CODIS from over 100 geographically 
    and organizationally separate database servers to a centrally managed 
    database system. The expected benefit of this change includes making data 
    storage and search capacities sufficient to meet all future foreseeable 
    needs, and providing immediate electronic access to information in the 
    national DNA database by participating agencies to help solve crimes.
    
          And finally, we are taking the action to address what I consider to 
    be unacceptable delays in the processing of DNA evidence. In the United 
    States today, there are typically delays between six months and a year in 
    carrying out DNA analysis of submitted crime scene evidence. Even in the 
    most efficient jurisdictions there tend to be delays for three to four 
    months. In the meantime, killers, rapists and other serious offenders who 
    could be identified and apprehended through DNA testing remain at large to 
    commit more crime. In addition, resources are consumed in pursuing cases 
    that might quickly be resolved by DNA results. Innocent persons who would 
    be cleared through DNA testing risk being wrongfully suspected or accused 
    and detained for crimes they did not commit.
    
          We can do much better. Ideally, with current technology, any delays 
    in obtaining test results should be, at most, a matter of days rather than 
    weeks or months or more. New technologies such as DNA microchips should 
    expedite analysis from days to minutes. Such a chip is currently under 
    development and is expected to be in the hands of our labs for testing by 
    December of this year.
    
          I am, accordingly, taking the step of asking the National Institute 
    of Justice to carry out a comprehensive assessment, both with current 
    technology and future technology, of the problem of delays in DNA analysis, 
    to be followed by recommendations for addressing delays in DNA analysis. 
    Now, this is the first time such a comprehensive and unified approach has 
    been undertaken to maximize the value of DNA for criminal justice system 
    application.
    
          Now, ladies and gentlemen, the hallmark of criminal justice in 
    America is to protect the innocent by bringing the guilty to justice. We 
    have a tool, an outstanding one, DNA analysis, that can revolutionize this 
    process by identifying those who have committed crimes quickly and to a 
    degree of certainty previously unable to law enforcement. We do ourselves 
    and the American people we serve an injustice if we fail to utilize this 
    remarkable tool to the fullest extent possible.
    
          The initiatives I have announced today will help to ensure that we 
    harness DNA technology to punish the guilty, to protect the innocent, to 
    ensure the full, fair, and just administration of the laws in the nation.
    
          Members of the Congress are basis for our ability in the Justice 
    Department to announce these kinds of changes. The funding is a result of 
    the Congress's understanding of the need, and the capacity to develop the 
    databases and to refine them is a result of their understanding of the 
    opportunity to promote justice through technology.
    
          I want to thank each of the members of the Congress who are here 
    today, and I just have the privilege of noting that not only do we have the 
    senator from New York, we have the congressman, Ben Gilman, from New York. 
    I'll start with Senator Hatch and then Senator Schumer. And Ben, thank you 
    very much for coming to be a part of the meeting today.
    
          Senator Hatch?
    
          SEN. HATCH: Well, thank you, General. I am very honored to be here, 
    and I'm really pleased with the work that you're doing down here, and this 
    is just one illustration of how you're moving ahead.
    
          In recent years, DNA analysis has emerged as one of the most powerful 
    tools in solving crime, as the attorney general has said -- many times more 
    powerful than fiber analysis, blood typing or even fingerprint evidence. 
    DNA testing has given us the power to solve crimes that in past years we 
    would have no hope of solving. It has also, in some cases, given us the 
    opportunity to identify individuals who have been wrongfully convicted of 
    crime, as the general has said.
    
          The vast potential of DNA testing to identify the perpetrators of 
    crime has not so far been fully realized. We have had a good illustration 
    that we're so far behind in so many ways. Because forensic laboratories 
    have not received needed equipment or trained technicians, there are 
    literally thousands of crimes that are simply sitting in forensic 
    laboratories around our country, waiting in line to be solved. Typically, 
    an evidence sample must wait, as General Ashcroft has said, for six months 
    to a year
    before being tested, if then.
    
          Some of us in Congress have recognized the crisis in our country's 
    forensic laboratories and have worked for years to increase the funding for 
    DNA testing. Finally, last year we were able to pass the DNA Analysis 
    Backlog Reduction Act of 2000. That act authorized $170 million over four 
    years to help the states expand the capacity of these forensic laboratories 
    to conduct these DNA tests. And I'm pleased today that the Department of 
    Justice is taking the next step in implementing the Backlog Reduction Act.
    
          Millions of dollars are being made available to the states for 
    equipment and personnel that will allow the states to proceed with this DNA 
    analysis.
    
          Money will be made available to the states to test biological 
    evidence that has been recovered from crime scenes in which there are no 
    known suspects. For example, DNA testing will be done on rape kits in order 
    to solve sexual assault cases in which there are no other leads to the 
    perpetrators' identity.
    
          Number two, money will be available to the states to obtain DNA 
    profiles from convicted offenders. These profiles will be added to CODIS, 
    the national database of DNA profiles administered by the FBI.
    
          Now, number three, the Bureau of Prisons will begin implementing its 
    own program of compiling DNA profiles of felons who are currently 
    incarcerated in our federal system for the commission of violent crimes.
    
          And number four, the FBI will implement upgrades to the CODIS system 
    itself, enhancing the capability of federal, state and local laboratories 
    to gain immediate access to the database.
    
          Number five, the National Institute of Justice will carry out a new 
    study on the DNA backlog and make recommendations for further actions to 
    speed up the process.
    
          So I applaud Attorney General Ashcroft for jumping on this issue, 
    moving it ahead, getting it done and doing it in an expeditious and 
    reasonable way, because we really do want to accomplish all of these things 
    that he has so fully discussed in his extensive statement. And of course, 
    we want to catch the perpetrators, convict them and release those who are 
    innocent and make sure that no innocent person goes to jail.
    
          SEN. SCHUMER: Well, thank you. And first, let me thank you, General, 
    for having us here today to stand with you for this important announcement. 
    You and I agree on a lot more issues than most people think we do. 
    (Laughter.) And it's great to see you and work with you here today, and I 
    appreciate your graciousness in inviting us.
    
          I also want to thank my colleagues. We all worked on this legislation 
    in the House and Senate; Senator Hatch and Senator Leahy, who couldn't be 
    here, who has also done a lot of work on this, and Congressmen Gilman and 
    Weiner, both coming from my state of New York.
    
          Now, for centuries now, we've had the world's greatest system of 
    criminal justice, and that's based on the judgment of 12 ordinary men and 
    women who hear the evidence and do their best to reach a fair verdict.
    
          Today we can offer them a powerful new tool, one that acts as a 
    virtual truth serum in some criminal proceedings. With DNA, we can invest 
    the phrase "beyond a reasonable doubt" with even greater certainty. DNA not 
    only allows us to clear the innocent; it also helps us to apprehend the 
    guilty. It is neutral, actually, in terms of its application, because it's 
    a truth serum, in a certain sense.
    
          Now we all share the goal of ensuring that only the guilty suffer 
    punishment. Nothing will corrode public faith in our criminal justice 
    system more quickly and surely than the specter of innocent men and women 
    languishing in prisons for crimes committed by others.
    
          And we should not be stingy or technical about this. DNA testing is 
    relatively cheap, it's rapidly accomplished and near perfectly accurate. 
    All convicted offenders who need it should get it, so we can be absolutely 
    sure about who we convict and punish.
    
          But DNA is more than a tool to help people already in prison. It's an 
    extraordinary crime fighter, which we should put to much wider use.
    
          In my state of New York, we have 15,000 rape kits that are sitting in 
    refrigerated warehouses, awaiting DNA testing and possible matching to 
    people with profiles already in state or federal databases.
    
          Nationwide, the estimates are that 180,000 rape kits require 
    analysis. That means that 180,000 rapes, potentially, have gone unsolved. 
    It means that potentially 180,000 rapists remain at large, free to strike 
    again. It means that potentially 180,000 women cannot move on, cannot 
    breathe easier, cannot fully recover, because we haven't provided the 
    police with every available tool to bring their attackers to justice.
    
          We need to do a better job of using DNA to catch criminals, and I am 
    proud to stand here with the attorney general, because today we make giant 
    steps down that road.
    
          I commend the Department of Justice and the attorney general for 
    implementing this plan. Substantial funds will go to clear DNA backlogs at 
    forensic labs, collect samples from convicted felons, improve our database, 
    and speed up delays, as the attorney general has outlined.
    
          This is just the sort of balance we need between protecting the 
    innocent whole enhancing law enforcement's ability to apprehend and 
    properly punish the guilty.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Ben?
    
          REP. BENJAMIN GILMAN (R-NY): Thank you very much, Attorney General.
    
          Our gratitude goes out to the attorney general for his support of our 
    law enforcement activities and particularly the DNA technology, which has 
    backlogged so tremendously over the years. The attorney general is 
    certainly a great friend to our law enforcement community and judicial 
    system, and we're proud of your service to our country.
    
          Our nation's fight against violent crime, of course, is a never- 
    ending fight. Every day the use of DNA evidence is becoming a more and more 
    important tool to all of us and particularly to the law enforcement 
    community in solving crimes, convicting the guilty, and exonerating the 
    innocent.
    
          There's a double edge to this tool. It's helpful throughout the 
    judicial system.
    
          Just last year our New York state governor, George Pataki, enacted 
    legislation to expand the state's collection -- New York state's collection 
    of DNA samples, which shortly thereafter resulted in charges being filed in 
    a 20-year-old Westchester County murder.
    
          However, the growing nationwide backlog of DNA samples from convicted 
    offenders and unsolved cases continues to be a serious threat to the 
    effective use of that important technology in our crime- fighting efforts. 
    Accordingly, along with former Congressman McCollum of Florida; 
    Representatives Scott, Ramstad, Stupak, Kennedy; Congressmen Weiner -- 
    who's with us here today -- and Chabot; and the FBI, we were able to pass 
    the DNA Analysis Backlog Elimination Act, providing some
    $30 million to our law enforcement community to address the needs of our 
    prosecutors, our law enforcement people, and victims throughout our nation.
    
          It's gratifying to be able to join our Attorney General Ashcroft 
    today to implement this important measure and to enforce our law 
    enforcement personnel, providing them the equipment and the support they 
    need to fight violent crime and to protect all of our communities by making 
    certain that they have the resources needed for their DNA databanks and 
    crime laboratories.
    
          Thank you again, Attorney General Ashcroft.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Thank you. Thank you.
    
          Congressman Weiner?
    
          REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D-NY): Thank you very much.
    
          I want to thank you, Mr. Attorney General, for hitting the ground 
    running so quickly on this important issue that unites so many of us -- 
    whether we're concerned about putting the right people behind bars or 
    making sure that the wrong people are not incarcerated, your efforts have 
    moved us much closer -- Congressman Gilman and Congressman Sensenbrenner, 
    who I understand is on the way here, as well.
    
          I want to begin by telling a story that Mr. Gilman alluded to, about 
    the Gregory family of Westchester County, New York. In August of 1979, 
    Diane Gregory, a 22-year-old woman, was brutally stabbed to death in her 
    apartment in Mount Vernon, New York. Bloodstains found at the evidence of 
    the crime scene were preserved as evidence.
    
          The police had some good leads, but -- and they had a fair amount of 
    forensic evidence, but they could not put their suspect at the scene of the 
    crime, and the case went unsolved for over 20 years.
    
          Fast-forward to December of 1999. New York Governor Pataki signs a 
    new law in New York expanding the state's DNA database. Now all convicted 
    criminals must submit DNA for testing, including robbers. So in January of 
    last year, a career criminal serving time for robbery, named Walter Gill, 
    is asked to provide a blood sample to New York prison officials. The sample 
    is loaded on to the state database.
    
          The Gregory family, hearing of the new advances in DNA technology, 
    contacts the Westchester County District Attorney's Office and requests 
    that they reopen the case. A blood stain from the crime scene is tested for 
    DNA. This sample is taking from the Gregory murder scene, is run through 
    the state database. It matches the recently provided sample from the 
    robber, Walter Gill. With the DNA match, Mr. Gill was indicted for the 
    20-year old murder. Prosecutors reported that when Mr. Gill was asked to 
    provide a blood sample in January, he said that he knew at that moment he 
    was in trouble. In fact, he was only half right, because taking his blood, 
    testing it for DNA, uploading it in computers still did not solve the case. 
    It wasn't until the crime scene evidence was tested that the Gregorys got 
    some relief.
    
          This story highlights the two sides of the DNA backlog issue. The 
    Justice Department, as Senator Schumer says, has reported last year that 
    180,000 rape kits are sitting in police evidence lockers throughout the 
    country. In the Department of Justice authorization bill we just did, 
    language was included, with the help of the attorney general, to get a 
    better handle on exactly where those rape kits are sitting. New York City 
    alone we have in the neighborhood of 15,000 kits, just like the one
    that was described earlier. The NYPD's evidence lab in Queens is a vast 
    chamber of unsolved crimes. I visited there recently, and it is chilling to 
    see the boxes on ice stacked high on the shelves. Those kits represent 
    180,000 women nationwide whose cases haven't been solved.
    
          In addition, there are more than 750,000 -- and that number rises 
    every day -- of convicted offender DNA samples which need to be analyzed. 
    That's why the DNA Backlog Elimination Act was introduced, to help families 
    like those and families like the Gregorys.
    
          The announcement we're making today, that additional funds will be 
    immediately sent to cities and states all around the country to clear out 
    this backlog, is very, very good news. Testing crime scene evidence can 
    link more killers, like Walter Gill, to crime scenes around the country. It 
    will put more criminals away; it will bring relief to countless victims.
    
          It is money and money alone that is preventing more victims of taking 
    advantage of DNA to solve their crimes.
    
          But today I'm very proud to stand here with an attorney general who's 
    committed to making sure those obstacles are removed.
    
          Thank you very much.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: I want to explicitly thank again these members of 
    the United States Congress, without whose sensitivity and understanding and 
    action regarding the reduction of the backlog of this program would be 
    impossible. I'm grateful.
    
          I'd be pleased to respond to questions. Yes?
    
          Q Some lawmakers in Congress want the grant of money like this to be 
    contingent upon states making post-conviction DNA testing available to 
    prisoners for whom DNA testing wasn't available at the time of their trial. 
    Do you support that? And where do you stand on people who are in jail 
    claiming they're innocent being allowed to have DNA testing?
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Well, obviously, the Congress fashioned this 
    proposal, and this proposal reflects the will of the Congress, and this 
    proposal is a good proposal that moves us forward. There may be other 
    things that we can do. None of us has any desire to prolong any wrongful 
    detention, and each of us wants to improve the quality of the justice 
    system to make certain that we have the right outcome in criminal cases. 
    The use of DNA will help that happen. I support this law as enacted, and 
    obviously, this program is predicated upon the law as enacted and will 
    provide this based on the terms of the law that the Congress passed last year.
    
          Yes?
    
          Q What is the time frame for the states getting the money and 
    beginning to get this backlog down to what you say you hope are days or weeks?
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Well, the announced funding will be provided over 
    the course of the next 18 months, and the time frame of backlog reduction 
    is both a question of resource and perhaps a question of technology. As was 
    indicated, I am directing the National Institute of Justice to evaluate the 
    ability to automate the process of analyzing DNA. In the event we were to 
    get an automated system, it would probably accelerate very substantially 
    and give us a capacity that we don't currently have.
    
          The unautomated analysis of DNA, once in the laboratory and once on 
    the bench so that the processing takes place, is about a three-day process, 
    but the shipment of the DNA to the laboratory, the return of the analyzed 
    DNA, et cetera, back to the police agency makes it, right now, even in 
    expeditious matters, something that could -- is going to take seven to 10 
    days. You can envisage a system with the right kind of -- if, in fact, 
    we're able to achieve an automation, that would be much quicker.
    
          So most of the backlog, if we're talking about a six-month backlog 
    and all but 10 days of that is waiting in line -- and six months is the 
    best situation. We've got other backlog that's much worse. So that's kind 
    of the framework in which we find ourselves. We're pursuing a strategy to 
    reduce the backlog, in accordance with the congressional directive, of 
    providing more resources to improve our performance with current 
    technology. We want to explore the ability to take that three-day period of
    something -- once something's on the laboratory bench, to compress that 
    even substantially with automation. And once you get to automation, it may 
    be possible to even reduce the travel and handling times.
    
          REP. WEINER: And our House oversight committee will try to expedite 
    the funds going out to the states.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Sir?
    
          Q Just a point of clarification. More than 180,000 nationwide, those 
    are untested rape cases? Do those include solved rapes, or just are they 
    unsolved rapes? The other figure was more than 750,000 criminals who had 
    been tested. Is that across the country? And that's people who were 
    incarcerated who --
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Let me try and address that. In terms of the 
    180,00 rape kits that have been untested, I think it may be possible that 
    there are -- there has been conviction based on other evidence in some of 
    that population. The 700(,000) to 800,000 of other tests that are to be 
    run, some of those are detainees who will now be asked for samples, like 
    the example of the individual in New York that was asked for a sample. 
    Others of those are samples that come from crime scenes for which
    we have no suspects.
    
          Now one of the things that you do in a setting like this is when you 
    get the sample from crime scenes for which there are no suspects, if you 
    can somehow cross-reference those against the samples that have been 
    collected from people incarcerated, you may find that the people already 
    incarcerated for other crimes are responsible for some of the no-suspect 
    crimes, if you can cross-reference these. And ultimately that's an objective.
    
          For me to go further than that with greater specificity is probably 
    impossible. And you might want to check with some of the -- the folks with 
    the real know-how are working on this in the Justice Department, may be 
    able to answer that further.
    
          Q And that 15,000 figure was just New York City or all of New York 
    state? And also, how much does it cost the government to do one DNA sample?
    
          REP. WEINER: Well, if I can -- and also, on your previous question -- 
    the 180,000 number is probably dated at this point, for two reasons. One is 
    that cities and localities have been actively testing on their own. The 
    city of New York, for example, just entered into $14 million worth of 
    contracts with private labs to help clear out their backlog.
    
          The -- and also that number is dated for another tragic reason, and 
    that is that the statute of limitations on many of these crimes has lapsed. 
    And each time it does -- although I still believe you should test that 
    evidence, each time it does, a potential victim has lost forever the 
    opportunity to find justice.
    
          The 15,000 number is also dated. That number is coming down.
    
          The number of untested convicted offender samples is a number that is 
    growing. Many of them, if not all of them, in all 50 states have given the 
    sample, which is just saliva, which is what they test. Now it's in the 
    queue that the attorney general described, to be tested. Many of those 
    samples are relatively inexpensive -- a couple of hundred dollars to sample 
    -- because they're going through a largely automated process.
    
          Testing -- according to the NYPD, testing evidence can be a widely 
    varying number, as much as a thousand to 2,000 dollars, because if you have 
    very small amounts of degraded evidence on a carpet or on some underwear 
    that has been sitting for years, it can very often require testing and 
    retesting and retesting, which makes it much more expensive.
    
          Q General Ashcroft, in Oklahoma we've seen widespread problems with 
    the crime lab there. What assurance is there in this plan that as the 
    states now rush ahead to try and make a dent in the backlog, that we're 
    going to get accurate results, rather than sloppy results?
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Well, we're going to ask states, when they 
    receive these funds -- devote these funds to the purposes for which the 
    Congress enacted this program. And I don't think anybody has an interest in 
    taking a resource and having a sloppy devotion of the resource, so that 
    none of the purposes are achieved.
    
          We'll ask the states to do this with a sense of enhancing the 
    criminal justice process. I believe they will. I --
    
          Do you have any comments you'd like to make on that?
    
          REP. GILMAN: Well, we'll try to make certain that the money when it's 
    doled out is going to go to reliable laboratory people. And if there's any 
    problem on it, Congress will provide the oversight.
    
          STAFF: We have time for one more question.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Sure.
    
          Q Attorney general, is this really enough money? Your 30 million may 
    break the current log jam, but this is a vast new area. It's growing all 
    the time. You're going to have log jam after log jam in the future. Any 
    thoughts to maybe a much larger program --
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: Well, this is a substantial resource. I think the 
    Congress is to be commended for focusing its energy on this resource, both 
    to make sure that we have a higher level of confidence in those that are 
    convicted and that we provide a basis for those who are innocent not to be 
    inappropriately detained or withheld. And we're in a dynamic setting. As we 
    would hope that we might be able to have a breakthrough when it comes to 
    the kind of automation -- and Congressman Weiner has very clearly indicated 
    that certain kinds of tests are subject to processing in one way, and other 
    kinds of tests with degraded or very small amounts of DNA and less complete 
    samples require other things. So if we can get -- if we move ourselves 
    toward a more efficient approach with automation, we may be able to solve 
    some of these problems. This is a major first step. It's a movement in the 
    right direction by the Congress, which I'm happy to have the opportunity to 
    implement at their direction. And I think it's something that we'll monitor 
    and we'll see what happens in technology and see how these funds are used 
    and their effectiveness, and then we'll collaborate with the Congress to 
    see what else might be needed.
    
          REP. WEINER: Can I offer one more point on that? One of the things 
    that we need to keep in mind, as the experts in this building have told us 
    over and over again, that criminals who rape and sexually abuse women are 
    by -- very often naturally recidivist crimes. Very often you can do a 
    couple of tests that wind up doing a couple of things:
    
          One, solving several crimes all at once;
    
          And two, putting a person behind bars that may have been more likely 
    to commit several crimes in the future.
    
          So we have to recognize that there is an ability. Early money really 
    does help us prevent future crimes.
    
          REP. GILMAN: And to address your question further, if there's a need 
    for additional funds, I feel certain the Congress will address that properly.
    
          ATTY GEN. ASHCROFT: I thank you all very much.
    
    END.
    
    
    
    
    
    
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