Previous Politech message: http://www.politechbot.com/p-04056.html --- From: "mobiustripat_private" <mobiustripat_private> To: declanat_private Subject: Re: Military apparently videotapes DC protesters; PosseComitatus Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:22:06 -0400 i agree, but i was in farragut sq that saturday and soon after outside the worldbank, and i saw the military standing side by side w/the metrocops. --- From: "Bill Hanson" <hansonweat_private> To: <declanat_private> Subject: RE: Military apparently videotapes DC protesters; Posse Comitatus Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 05:30:02 -0500 Declan, I was unable to tell from the pictures (too blurry to fix out the unit insignia), but from the context it's likely that those shown are members of the National Guard. The National Guard works for the governor of the state unless they are federalized. While working with the state, posse comitatus doesn't apply, as they are under Title 32, USC instead of Title 10, which governs the active duty military. Bill H --- Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 10:38:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "J.D. Abolins" <jda-irat_private> To: Declan McCullagh <declanat_private> Subject: Re: FC: Military apparently videotapes DC protesters; Posse Comitatus In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021009000617.01e3a628at_private> Off-the-cuff FWIW speculations about the "odd" reduncy of military surveillance of the DC protesters: 1. Practice for future possibilities of dealing with urban environments where protesting civilians may be expected. Having rpactice intelligence collection in the States may be seen as preparation for various Operations Other Than War. 2. Concerns that some of the protestors ("troublemakers") will become people of concern to the US DoD somewhere along the line. Getting to know who they are for future reference. Just speculations, no evidence on hand. For something more solid on the issue of the military and domestic operations, the October 2002 issue of the US Naval Institutes "Proceedings" carried an op-ed piece "Broaden Armed Forces' Roles at Home and Abroad" by Captain James F. Kelly Jr., USN (Ret.) Kelly argues strongly for great powers to use the military in USA domestic law enforcement and anti-terrorism operations. Among his arguments is that US police department already are modeled after military units and that regular military personnel, unlike National Guard members or the local police, do not live in the area where they will operation. That lessens the worries about civilian response to the operation resulting in off-duty repercussions for the enforcers. <!!!> Although he doesn't expand on the second argument, it is a chilling echo of the practice by the USSR and others to use troops from distant regions to enforce harsh measures. Such troops would not have to live with the consequences when they go home, they lack relational ties with the people they might have to handle roughly, and they'd have regional and ethnic prejudices that lessen empathy for the civilians. The last is not as strong of a factor for USA situations but it can still play a role via cultural differences as dealing, say, urban operations. Kelly seemed to have distorted several things in his piece. He totally neglects history of why Britain and, by extension, the USA developed a civilian police force with strong disticntions form the military. Also he claims that military doing domestic policing is fine because soldiers swear to defend the *nation* from all enemies foreign and domestic. It This is a major distortion for a military person. The oath one swears upon enlistment is to defend the Constitution not the nation or its people. It goes: "I, ___________________________________, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Ref. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blenlistmentoath.htm Alas, Kelly's piece is not online at the USNI.org site. I'll snail mail you a paper copy. J.D. Abolins ------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ Recent CNET News.com articles: http://news.search.com/search?q=declan -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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