-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:32:15 -0500 From: Craig S. Cottingham <craig@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> References: <408E8A0D.3000205@private> On Tue, 2004-04-27 at 11:27, Declan McCullagh wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: For Politech: CA CHP asks motorists to rat on their neighbors... > Under the project, the public is being urged to use a CHP website to > anonymously report possible violations, > http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/cheaters.html. I don't see anything on that page that certifies that (a) I am a citizen of the state of California and (b) the information I'm submitting is to my knowledge true. (Maybe if you submit information, you get such a statement to acknowledge before continuing; I haven't tried it.) In other words, I can sit here in my house in the Midwest and enter fake license plate sightings until my fingers are sore, and there's nothing legally wrong with that. If I *really* wanted to cause trouble, I'd make note of license plates and the make/model/color the cars they're attached to as I pass them on the road or at the shopping mall. A check with the appropriate state database would confirm that yes, that plate really *is* registered to a car of that make/model/color, and a CHP officer would have to spend time finding out that the owner isn't actually a resident of California. Then again, maybe they'll just take the easy way out, assume guilt until innocence is proven, send a bill and a threatening letter, and leave it up to the plate registrant to prove that he or she *isn't* a resident of California. -- Craig S. Cottingham craig@private -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:52:02 -0700 From: Christopher Buja <cbuja@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> of course, the same subject heading could read "CHP asks for help in getting everyone to pull their own weight" Hard not to get tired of the number of Texas and Idaho plates, one sees. And this from someone who grew up in a very central-government-leery state of Montana. just my 2¢, -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:20:43 -0400 From: Billy Harvey <Billy.Harvey@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> References: <408E8A0D.3000205@private> Declan McCullagh wrote: > [What, no cash award for turning in your next-door neighbor? --Declan] There oughta be - say $1000. Around here I see half a dozen Tennessee plates a days sitting in the drop-off line as I take my kid to school. I pay nearly $1000 a year in property taxes on my two vehicles, half of which goes to the schools, to receive a license plate. People that have friends/family in Tenn to use as their registration address to get plates pay around $50. Tell me why I should feel guilt if they get hammered - I'm not only paying for my kid's education but I'm paying for their's too. Billy -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:00:18 -0500 From: Parks <parks@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private>, hclp@private In Houston we have several RAT programs. Cars which smoke can be anonymously turned in and the police issue a ticket that "violators" have to fix the car and get it tested. Another is after hours clubs. The new Mayor decided he didn't want to keep cops working late so he tried to shut those places down, claiming they are a hotbed of illegal activity. Baring him assuming dictatorial powers to close legitimate businesses, he is targeting management and raiding the places with anonymous "tips." My BILL OF RIGHTS says that we have the "RIGHT... to be confronted with the witnesses against..." us, and the right to subpoena those favorable to our case. IMHO - ALL anonymous rat programs are UN-American and unconstitutional. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:54:30 -0400 From: Dan Barrett <dbx@private> Reply-To: dbx@private To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> References: <408E8A0D.3000205@private> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 27 April 2004 12:27, you wrote: > [What, no cash award for turning in your next-door neighbor? --Declan] Massachusetts has been doing this forever: How do I report someone who has vehicles registered in another state but who lives here? Report this by calling the "I PAY TAX" hotline at 1-800-472-9829 (from http://www.state.ma.us/rmv/faq/index.htm) I invite you and your readers to call the number and listen to the message (don't worry, a real human does NOT answer). I should also note that the Commonwealth's Department of Revenue is actively pursuing a long-term plan to collect sales tax on items purchased out of the Commonwealth and shipped in, by collecting shipment records from UPS and FedEx (cf. your earlier story re. online cigarette sales). According to a recent interview with the Revenue Commissioner, the Department of Revenue is shooting for a system wherein your tax due is calculated annually by the DOR, "and if you disagree, you can call us." Best, d. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAjp5XsIjNiQTGkXARAqkMAJwPdfLcGv4SE3uYe4yVf6gIflHJiACgoFL6 lI83vMH7F5WLapbTMKNLsj8= =910g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Politech] Cops ask Californians to rat on their neighbors' cars [priv] Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:07:37 -0500 From: Matthew Platte <plattem@private> To: Declan McCullagh <declan@private> References: <408E8A0D.3000205@private> I'm having a little trouble understanding two positions, squaring two circles. I get the impression that among the Politech Community (that's lame but I don't know what else to call it) it's commendable to rat out a spammer. For one who releases spam and/or computer viruses, security through obscurity is not an acceptable refuge from the law whether that law is created by Jon Postal (RIP) or U.S. Congress, etc. ISP's who refuse to rat out their subscribers are vilified, blocked and taken to task for aiding a spammer however passively. Bands of Internet mercenaries are generally cheered for creating blackholes, to which the Bad Guys are sent. Even the chronic troubles with SpamCop are not related to the activity per se, but to SpamCop's ham-fisted methods. On the other hand, all over America we have these two-ton killing machines threatening bicyclists, armadillos, farmers' markets and everything else that finds itself on or near an asphalt trail. The body count is still something like thirty thousand per year in the U.S.A. In a weird death machine parallel, that works out to one dead human per nuclear-tipped missile per year according to some outdated and probably inadequate estimates of the American arsenal. We have nearly a century of laws regulating the operation of these aptly named suburban assault vehicles. Never mind the environmental laws, I'm just talking about state and local laws directly related to the automobile. Why does privacy trump the common good when it comes to transportation? These devices kill and maim far more people than a paltry 600 per annum that Nightline is set to memorialize yet where is the backlash? Where is the outrage? Not amongst the PC. Apparently if one breaks a law, or breaks many laws, regarding the ownership, registration and operation of these wheeled juggernauts it's okay -- unless the perpetrator happens to be caught red-handed by a uniformed officer of the government. If the perp can zoom home and park the mobile crime lab in the garage, then no laws were broken, no crimes were committed, nobody saw nothing. Do ya wonder why some folks thinks we is selfish? I'll be glad when gasoline hits eight bucks per gallon. Yeah, I know: I'm over the top. Thanks for the rant. ;) Oh, one more thing: In my driveway is a '72 Winnebago, a '51 Hudson, and a '92 Nissan ZX300. On the street an '85 Ford 4x4, a '75 VW Microbus and a 1970 VW Beetle. No granola or Birkenstocks. A couple of bikes, the ones that haven't been stolen by the teenagers who, when they have gained more experience, take car stereos and/or the entire vehicle. -- -------^.^-- Matthew Platte Lincoln Nebraska On Apr 27, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > [What, no cash award for turning in your next-door neighbor? --Declan] > > _______________________________________________ Politech mailing list Archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ Moderated by Declan McCullagh (http://www.mccullagh.org/)
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