> All, > Here is my input based on more contracts than I care to remember. Thanks for taking the time to add your thoughts. Although I've never posted here, I have some ideas to add. > > > edelkindat_private wrote: > > Some recruiting firms will offer you packaged computerized tests in your field > Run away from anyone who busts out the skills test. As the writer > said, you only have one or two skills you want to present anyways. > Another bad thing about skills tests is this: if you took a class in > COBOL in college and you put a 1 down for COBOL, what do you do when > they offer you a submission in a COBOL shop? I only list the skills I > want to work with. If I don't want to do it again I drop it. I used to > paint houses and hang tapes, you don't see "computer operator" or > "industrial coatings applications" on my resume. That I was container > and high steel certified for painting matters 0 today. > > > If you really must go through a headhunter despite all of this, here are some > > things to keep in mind: > > 1. Be very careful with your resume. > > This is important. On my resume it says "not to be submitted without > the express permission of Ry Jones". I only hand it out when there is > a submittal for it. Handing your resume out to everyone is counter > productive. When you're looking for a job, you want exposure. If you're looking for a specific job, I'd agree with you. If you're trying to "get the word out" say, establishing a reputation, new in town, etc, then a shotgun approach can yield amazing results. I recommend decent fax software and some research. How does this apply to the security field? I'm seeing alot of requests for guidance from people who are entering the job market. A good portion of them have skills but little professional experience. If you accept a BS job with an interesting company, and suddenly you're solving a lot of problems, you've launched your new security career. > > ANother reason to resrict access to your resume is so that people > don't archive old ones. I can't count the number of times some > recruiter submitted a three year old resume they had laying around. I > get a call about some bogus job in Renton... cha, as if. > > > 3. Many people who go to headhunters will be less knowledgeable than you, but > > will lie on their resume. They will probably end up getting the jobs that you > > are qualified for. You can live with it, or you can lie on your resume too. Even though I'm not looking for work, I still get inquiries once in a while. This does not bother me, and is sometimes quite informative about whats happening in the local job market. I'd recommend a polite response to headhunters. I even pick their brains once in a while if they seem especially clueful. If they're trying to place talented candidates, perhaps your company needs to know about it. > > If your interviewer is worth anything they'll pop a liar like a big > zit. I have some standard interview questions for UNIX; one is, what's > your favorite editor? If it's vi, I'll ask a string of progressively > harder questions to find out how strong they are. I've had people who > said they were VI gods not be able to search and replace. Really. > I call these people "nice guys". If the only thing I can say about you > is that you're a nice guy, your resume goes in the hall of shame. > > > 4. Keep your references handy. If a headhunter agrees to send your resume to a > > client, they will not then wait around for you to send them your references if > > they have others waiting as well. I'd agree about not lying. Once you've blown your credibility, forget about it. Admit you have no idea about a particular problem, and then discuss your method of dealing with that. As rapidly as technology is changing, specific skills have a limited life span. The ability to absorb new material and solve new problems is more important to me than any specific skill set. Asking increasingly difficult questions is a good method of finding out how a candidate will react when they've finally run out of answers though. Personally, I'd rather hear "I don't know" than listen to someone try to spoof an answer. What happens after "I don't know" is the important question. > > No. Do not hand out references as if they were candy. All the > recruiter wants to do is call your references up and bug them about > getting a new job. If you're in the final stages of interviewing for a > job you want, give a list directly to the firm. Never, ever give > references to a recruiting firm. > > > 5. Headhunters generally like certifications -- any of them. If you have an > > MCSE, you will be much better qualified for a position relating to security or > > unix, as far as many headhunters are concerned. > > I look at certs as a bogometer. The more certs, the more bogus you > are. If you have time to go get certs, what are you doing with your > life? The only exception I make is if they were employed by the > company. When I was at MSFT, you could earn MS certs for essentially > free. In that case, why not? Same for Sun and Java certs. It's free. > Certs have their place. Having them isn't a liability in my world. That said, relying on them for actual quality control is a huge mistake. Peer review is essential during the hiring process. > > I'm sure (i hope) there are some headhunters who know their elbows from... > > [...] but (no offense to headhunters) most do not. > > If recruiters knew much about tech, why would they be recruiters? > The whole point of a resume is to get a recruiter to call you and > submit you to an employer. The whole point of the recruiter is to > filter out resumes as quickly as possible and get the ones they can > make money on to the clients who need them. You can't expect a > recruiter to be tech savvy. > Ry I only expect people to be good at their jobs. A good professional recruiter should know a whole lot more about finding the right job for the right person than most security engineers. Cheers, -duncan
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Apr 13 2001 - 15:26:18 PDT