I agree whole heartedly with the information presented. I've blacklisted agencies before and they have regretted it. I was looking for work once and was told that I was perfect for a position and I would be submitted. In the end I was not submitted and when I talked with the recruiter he said he was "too busy filling A+ classes to think about placing me." I was placed a short time later through a competitor in a great position in the financial industry. When the manager for the recruiting company I had blackballed asked me why I didn't go through them I told him. He was noticeably upset at the lost revenue. Especially when I told him that I was pulling 70-80+ hour work weeks and was being paid time and a half for everything over 40. (I still get a warm feeling when I think of this... :-) A FAQ for job hunters would be a great thing! I'm sure many of us have experiences that could help others to avoid the pains we've had to endure in looking for work. On to a couple things I can't stress enough to those working with recruiters. First, make sure you know who your resume has been submitted to. If the agency won't tell you who you're being submitted to you don't need to work with them. If they want to you sign a contract saying you won't solicit the company directly it's not that unusual - but watch the timeframe and the wording. If the agency has submitted you don't submit directly. This is unethical and can lead to your being blackballed with the agency (or agencies). Second, read your non-compete clause carefully. I've seen two types of non-compete clauses recently. The first simply says that you are not permitted to apply back to the company you are contracted to for a period of time. This is typical, and almost expected. They are just trying to guarantee the income for providing a service to their client. The other type is far more limiting and I personally refuse to sign. This type states that you won't solicit ANY company the agency has a business arrangement with for a period of time. Think about it. A company places you with Widgets R Us. After 6 months you find out about a position at Sprockets R Better. You apply and get the position. When you give notice and tell them where you're going they inform you that they have a business relationship with that company and that they have to submit you. They also inform you that if you don't you're in violation of contract and are subject to damages in the amount of what they would have made by submitting you. Sound far fetched? It happens more often than you would think. Lastly, be honest with the recruiters about who your applied with, and what positions. Make sure they know they are NOT to submit you to those companies. In a few larger organizations they may have opening for contract and direct hire and you may have to submit directly to the company for the direct hire positions. Talk with over with recruiter. Do NOT send your resume to every recruiting company in town. Select 1 or 2 that have experience placing people with your skill set and work with them. If they don't perform go to another agency. I've found posting to most of the job boards to be a waste of time. I have found that searching the boards for information on positions (salary, job availability, responsibilities, etc.), and submitting your resume by fax and email to the contact listed directly (not through the board's interface) to be effective. Especially if I put the information about the position I saw on the board in the email. While the information on contracts may not be applicable because you're in a 'right-to-work' state I recommend that you ask a lawyer to review the paperwork before you sign if you have any doubts. DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. This is not meant to be legal advice. This is meant to point out potential shortcoming I've seen. If you have any questions, consult your lawyer, or your friend's lawyer, or hey, your enemy's lawyer. But don't take just my word for it. Good luck! Ed Spencer MCSE/MCT/CNA/A+/Network+ Security Analyst - IS Security Renaissance Worldwide, Inc. - Walt Disney World This communication is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain trade secrets or other information that is exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any use, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication by anyone other than the named recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by calling (407) 566-5195. The ideas, opinions, and information expressed within the above email are the express sole opinion of the author and are not the opinion of the Walt Disney World Corporation. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Pfeil [mailto:Kenat_private] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:26 PM To: securityjobsat_private Subject: Random Thoughts from the "Peanut Gallery" Hi All, There's been a lot of postings and webpages popping up on the internet regarding failed companies by security professionals. This is just a small bit of advice to both ex "Dotcom-ers" and recruiters. To the unemployed security professional (ex dotcom-er): First off, you are not alone. There seem to be more and more joining the ranks everyday. You may spend MONTHS searching for the right opportunity. Right now in this market, you probably will not find anything worthy of your skill set. Be prepared to "settle". Your resume may eventually make it into a stack on some entry level HR person's desk, who will scan it for "buzzwords". These are the same people who wouldn't know security if it were dating their daughter. Be prepared for the "you don't seem to have enough experience on Widget A" speech, even though you've tried to pack 14 years of applicable experience into 4 condensed still-readable pages. For example, If your resume has strengths pertaining to one operating system, they'll say that you don't "have enough experience" in an operating system that you've only got 8-9 years experience with. That's if you are lucky enough to receive feedback at all. If your resume was sent by a recruiter to them, chances are you won't. Find out as much as you can about the position BEFORE your resume is sent, and fix it to suit the position. If you don't have a "Big Five" background in security, you'll probably need it. Believe it or not, many smaller companies (where most of the "good" jobs are) rely on the sole opinion of "Big Five" (or is it 6 now?) consultants. And a few of those know less about security than the HR person (above). Chances are, it'll be the one with a "professional axe" to grind with you, or the "clueless one". Be prepared :-( Your experience at the now defunct "DotCom" is just that, experience. Let it go. You probably won't find that level of opportunity in the "real world". Case in point: I was Chief Information Security Officer. There are not that many positions available like this today. Few and far between. Be prepared for a hefty pay cut and demotion in job description and responsibilities. Your spouse will have to go back to work, so don't cut off your relationship with your children's daycare and lose that slot just yet. Don't burn bridges with the management of the company you worked for, now matter how bitter you feel, or how badly you think things were mismanaged. These very same people can do great damage to your career prospects with merely a few words, phone call, or email. Your best bet on finding employment is to network with fellow professionals and contacts in your field. This list is an invaluable resource in that respect. Use it. Job Boards suck. Your resume will wind up EVERYWHERE for EVERY POSITION conceivable. You will receive many calls, but few offers. Many of these will come months or sometimes even years after you've found "gainful" employment. Keep you nose to the grindstone, for better days are a comin'. For the recruiter: Do NOT take someone's resume unless you have a position available that matches the potential candidate's career interest. We don't want to hear about the position unless there is funding for it, and it actually exists. "VaporJobs" (Jobs that don't yet exist) will not pay the bills. Do not send candidate's resume without his/her consent. There are fewer things more frustrating that looking like a complete moron all because two agencies sent their own marked up version of your resume in for the same position at the same company. Companies tend to "file 13" you over this. Communicate with the candidate regarding his/her candidacy for the position. Follow up with him/her. Don't make the candidate call you for a status. If the candidate emails you, email them back. If you say "I'll talk to you at 4pm" to a candidate, call him back. I've "blacklisted" several agencies on this alone (You know who you are, don't make me say it :) . Work on developing a relationship with the candidate. As discussed above, the candidate will probably not stay his entire career in one place. Especially dotcom'ers. Companies close up shop all too quickly nowadays. So you've got your fee. Now what, you're done? Nope. Keep in contact. This person may just be the hiring authority at his next company. Have a working knowledge of the position that you are presenting to the candidate. You look really silly to the candidate when you say "Well, I'm not the one handling that position so I don't know that much about it. Let me forward your resume to Joe Schmo. He'll call you back". Why didn't Joe Schmo make the call to you in the first place? Have a relationship with the client who is searching for a candidate. Be able to ask questions. Be prepared for the clueless, buzzword skimming, low-level HR person "blackballing" resumes. Many excellent candidates are skipped over merely because of the lack of "buzzwords", even though they have YEARS of experience. If you know they are qualified, do whatever you have to do to get them in for an interview. The candidate will have fond memories of your company because of this. Well folks, this is off the top of my head and I hope my hindsight benefits someone. If anyone has any more feedback, I'm all ears. Maybe we should start an FAQ? Best Regards and Good Luck, Ken Ken Pfeil Former Chief Information Security Officer Some DeadDotCom (I'm legally bound from mentioning the name in a public forum)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Wed Jun 20 2001 - 11:14:02 PDT