WE've watched the recruiting game change dramatically over the last 10+ years. There was a time whence the recruiters, especially those specializing in contractors and outsourcing contract positions to major firms, used to highly prize folks with specific skills to meet the demands of the corps they supplied workers too. It did not mean that all those recruiting people to fill positions were highly technical, but, there was staff on hand to adequately assess such in potentials. But, over time as HR folks moved into these positions, the technical skills dropped about ten places on the meters. as well, there is less if any allegiance for the agencies to their contractors and a total focus upon the corporate clients they supply to. This is a total about-face from times when agencies and recruiters actively searched for prospective contractors so as to fillout their ability to fulfill the needs of their corporate clients. that was a time when one could respond to a posting in a usenet job group and actually reach a live person at the other end with an e-mail of their resume, a time before the web became the main engine for filtering prospective candidates and storing vast sums of resumes of 'potentials' for *future* reference. Text based resumes were the norm then. Now the postings to those same usenet groups and many on the various websites tend to be OLD positions, that have long been closed or filled and are posted to get more resumes to add to their potential fodder databases of 'potentials'. The balance of seeing import in not only the corporate clients as well as folks that have a track record with that agency or contract house, their potential staff for a corp client, has diminished, dramatically these past 5 years or so. The services that these place provide has also gone down the proverbial toilet. Do not be surprised if you are the one that has to walk over their website seeking something fresh and 'requesting' they submit you for a position that hopefully is not too old on the block, and they do little more then pushed a resume to the client to hopefully get you an interview. do not be surprised when filing a contract or even a temp-to-hire spot that you are paying the full load for any -=benifits=- they 'provide' in the interim. All this only get worse as the markets slow up and the flood of folks seeking positions increases. There are lulls back to older times when this becomes reversed with a higher swing in available positions to recruits, but, it;s not a staying amtter. We've lerned to adapts and to improvise. Thanks, Ron DuFresne Mark Villanova wrote: > I was recently a victim of an office closing and found the job market to be > absolutely frightening. In the past when I sent out résumé's I got first > contact in a few days, or at most 2 weeks. When I found out they were > closing our San Diego office I immediately sent résumé's for every > reasonable position. 2 months later I was still out of work. I have since > accepted a position at about $20,000 less than I was making. And it was a > relocation with no relocation package and sub standard benes. I never > imagined an MCSE/CCNA NT/2000/Linux Admin taking a pay cut like this. Even > the recruiters had very few openings to submit me for. My advice to anyone > working in this industry, IT or Security, is hold on tight to the position > you have. Especially in Southern California. You don't know what else is > out there. And this market slump cannot last forever. When the market > improves, companies will have to pay us what we are worth or lose us to > someone that will. I'm glad to be where I am even with the pay cut. > > Just my $0.02 > > Mark Villanova MCSE/CCNA > Network Administrator > ReadyLink Healthcare > 760-770-0813 > mvillanovaat_private > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Pfeil [mailto:Kenat_private] > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:26 AM > To: securityjobsat_private > Subject: Random Thoughts from the "Peanut Gallery" > > Hi All, > > There's been a lot of postings and webpages popping up on the internet > regarding failed companies by security professionals. This is just a small > bit of advice to both ex "Dotcom-ers" and recruiters. > > To the unemployed security professional (ex dotcom-er): > First off, you are not alone. There seem to be more and more joining the > ranks everyday. > > You may spend MONTHS searching for the right opportunity. Right now in this > market, you probably will not find anything worthy of your skill set. Be > prepared to "settle". Your resume may eventually make it into a stack on > some entry level HR person's desk, who will scan it for "buzzwords". These > are the same people who wouldn't know security if it were dating their > daughter. > > Be prepared for the "you don't seem to have enough experience on Widget A" > speech, even though you've tried to pack 14 years of applicable experience > into 4 condensed still-readable pages. For example, If your resume has > strengths pertaining to one operating system, they'll say that you don't > "have enough experience" in an operating system that you've only got 8-9 > years experience with. That's if you are lucky enough to receive feedback at > all. If your resume was sent by a recruiter to them, chances are you won't. > Find out as much as you can about the position BEFORE your resume is sent, > and fix it to suit the position. If you don't have a "Big Five" background > in security, you'll probably need it. Believe it or not, many smaller > companies (where most of the "good" jobs are) rely on the sole opinion of > "Big Five" (or is it 6 now?) consultants. And a few of those know less about > security than the HR person (above). Chances are, it'll be the one with a > "professional axe" to grind with you, or the "clueless one". Be prepared :-( > > Your experience at the now defunct "DotCom" is just that, experience. Let it > go. You probably won't find that level of opportunity in the "real world". > Case in point: I was Chief Information Security Officer. There are not that > many positions available like this today. Few and far between. Be prepared > for a hefty pay cut and demotion in job description and responsibilities. > Your spouse will have to go back to work, so don't cut off your relationship > with your children's daycare and lose that slot just yet. > > Don't burn bridges with the management of the company you worked for, now > matter how bitter you feel, or how badly you think things were mismanaged. > These very same people can do great damage to your career prospects with > merely a few words, phone call, or email. > > Your best bet on finding employment is to network with fellow professionals > and contacts in your field. This list is an invaluable resource in that > respect. Use it. > > Job Boards suck. Your resume will wind up EVERYWHERE for EVERY POSITION > conceivable. You will receive many calls, but few offers. Many of these will > come months or sometimes even years after you've found "gainful" employment. > > Keep you nose to the grindstone, for better days are a comin'. > > For the recruiter: > > Do NOT take someone's resume unless you have a position available that > matches the potential candidate's career interest. We don't want to hear > about the position unless there is funding for it, and it actually exists. > "VaporJobs" (Jobs that don't yet exist) will not pay the bills. > > Do not send candidate's resume without his/her consent. There are fewer > things more frustrating that looking like a complete moron all because two > agencies sent their own marked up version of your resume in for the same > position at the same company. Companies tend to "file 13" you over this. > > Communicate with the candidate regarding his/her candidacy for the position. > Follow up with him/her. Don't make the candidate call you for a status. If > the candidate emails you, email them back. If you say "I'll talk to you at > 4pm" to a candidate, call him back. I've "blacklisted" several agencies on > this alone (You know who you are, don't make me say it :) . > > Work on developing a relationship with the candidate. As discussed above, > the candidate will probably not stay his entire career in one place. > Especially dotcom'ers. Companies close up shop all too quickly nowadays. So > you've got your fee. Now what, you're done? Nope. Keep in contact. This > person may just be the hiring authority at his next company. > > Have a working knowledge of the position that you are presenting to the > candidate. You look really silly to the candidate when you say "Well, I'm > not the one handling that position so I don't know that much about it. Let > me forward your resume to Joe Schmo. He'll call you back". Why didn't Joe > Schmo make the call to you in the first place? > > Have a relationship with the client who is searching for a candidate. Be > able to ask questions. Be prepared for the clueless, buzzword skimming, > low-level HR person "blackballing" resumes. Many excellent candidates are > skipped over merely because of the lack of "buzzwords", even though they > have YEARS of experience. If you know they are qualified, do whatever you > have to do to get them in for an interview. The candidate will have fond > memories of your company because of this. > > Well folks, this is off the top of my head and I hope my hindsight benefits > someone. If anyone has any more feedback, I'm all ears. Maybe we should > start an FAQ? > > Best Regards and Good Luck, > Ken > > Ken Pfeil > Former Chief Information Security Officer > Some DeadDotCom (I'm legally bound from mentioning the name in a public > forum) -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ admin & senior consultant: darkstar.sysinfo.com http://darkstar.sysinfo.com "Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation." -- Johnny Hart testing, only testing, and damn good at it too! ~~ The good thing about potential is, as long as you do nothing, you'll always have it.
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Jun 22 2001 - 14:42:37 PDT