Paul, I am in New Zealand. I am interested in your comments re qualifications. Here in New Zealand a lot of emphasis is still on practical experience and not necessarily a qualification. In fact we are seeing many graduates that do not have a grasp of reality. I have no formal quals. I have been in the communications industry since 1979. I now have my own company specialising in wide area networks with a major lean towards security. I am a Consulting Engineer. I work for large Telcos and their customers, banks, hospitals, I subcontract to large networking companies, I teach network analysis, management and security in a formalised class structure to compliment the local Cisco academy courses, I am a member of the Asia Pacific Cisco.com advisory board. I set security policies, do network security reviews, design networks, implement networks troubleshoot networks..... I have no formal quals yet work is not hard to get. I do not advertise. What I see here in NZ is that when we have qualified and experienced people they tend to drift overseas to the bigger money, Good quality experienced people are hard to find and they are valued highly. NZ is a country of technologically advanced people. Acceptance of technology is easy and we tend to be up with the play (so to speak). Some of our infrastructure however is not so advanced. cheers Ian Burgess Consulting Network Engineer The Total Team PO Box 20226 Bishopdale Christchurch New Zealand iburgessat_private ----- Original Message ----- From: <Paulosterwaldat_private> To: <Gregory_DeGennaroat_private>; <Nigel.Hedgesat_private>; <bluesdiva2001at_private>; <bluesdiva2001at_private> Cc: <cisspstudyat_private>; <securityjobsat_private> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: RE: Do I need to go to university ? It is not even the idea of having a degree any more where the ceiling is concerned. You can have an excellent background from practical experience, a respected degree, and still find yourself looking for work if you don't have an *advanced degree*. I'm not saying finish a baccalaureate degree and go right to a masters or doctorate, but, at some point pursuing a higher degree will also help to keep you from hitting the ceiling. The proper selection of advanced degrees will also help broaden your knowledge and career base. While MBA's have become passé in many circles, a good technically focused MBA program will help you obtain basic management/auditing (financial) experience while giving you specialized skills to move into computer security practice management. A doctorate in criminal justice (again technically focused) or one in jurisprudence will assist you in the upper tier management strategy and with the correct technical knowledge (remember, you have been working and going to night school) provide you with "fast track" skills to some very specialized areas of the industry (forensics, Chief Security Officer, computer law - advocacy and prosecution, etc.) "What do in life, echoes through eternity." - Marcus Aurelius -----Original Message----- From: Gregory_DeGennaroat_private [mailto:Gregory_DeGennaroat_private] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:00 PM To: Nigel.Hedgesat_private; bluesdiva2001at_private; bluesdiva2001at_private Cc: cisspstudyat_private; securityjobsat_private Subject: RE: Do i need to go to university ? Nigel, You may want to get a certification during the summer (MCP, CCNA, MCSE, RHCE, and etc). This will help you get your foot in the door while obtain your degree. This will also build your skills and experience. A recruiter may not consider you until you have a degree, so you may have to do some street pounding (look for a job on your own). If you work for a good company and they have the money, they will assist you in receiving your degree because knowledge is power and they want you to become a loyal employee. I am presently in this situation. Although I have learned more about computers at home and work than at college, I have to go to college since this is the general idea of the corporate world. This is the only way to make sure I never hit the promotion ceiling. Greg -----Original Message----- From: Hedges, Nigel [mailto:Nigel.Hedgesat_private] Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:55 PM To: Mary Laude; bluesdiva2001at_private Cc: cisspstudyat_private; securityjobsat_private Subject: RE: Do i need to go to university ? This is interesting. This thread is predominantly taking a rather static boolean view of it: when you either have a degree or you don't. Can I almost-OT: What about people currently progressing a degree? I'm 24, and studying part time in a double degree (Education/IT). Does anyone have opinions on how companies (or even recruiters) feel about people who are in a current attempt to obtain their degree? IS it viewed as cutting into their potential work commitment? Is it viewed as someone who is prepared to be loyal to a company that will support them through their studies? Your opinions are as always, really appreciated. Nigel H -----Original Message----- From: Mary Laude [mailto:bluesdiva2001at_private] Sent: Monday, 16 July 2001 5:36 AM To: bluesdiva2001at_private Cc: cisspstudyat_private Subject: Re: Do i need to go to university ? I would like to add that if you are female, you already are at a disadvantage compared to an equally qualified male. Say what you like about the fact that "we've come a long way"; in general "we're still not there" would be a better summary. If you are female, I recommend getting the degree. It shows that you have the stick-to-it-iveness and the academic strength to succeed at some level. So in the interview, when you are on the spot, and that old lack-of-self-confidence thing raises its head (if you are male you probably have no idea what I'm talking about), you have the background to show you really can perform, you really can succeed. I agree that whether or not you have a degree matters to some institutions, but not to others. But if you have a degree, I think it's a benchmark most people will respect. Experience on top of that, is, of course, great. Entry level, they will hire you without this if you have a degree; but later on, your experience will become increasingly important. This is my opinion, based on my own experience. Your opinion will, invariably, vary. Mary ===== %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I can give up chocolate anytime I want to! I just don't want to. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
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