RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland

From: webb1973 (webb1973@private)
Date: Thu Nov 22 2001 - 18:57:33 PST

  • Next message: BAIRD Dion E * DAS DOIT: "RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland"

    One question. Have you ever traveled outside the US to a country other than
    Canada? I am troubled by your resentment of our government. I personally
    think you are wrong. But that is certainly your right to think and say what
    you please, unlike other places in this world. I don't think much of the
    politics of most politician or their views of the world, but I do believe
    neither the current administration or the last one would ever allow a dark
    empire such as you envision. In fact, I don't know any law enforcement
    people that would want or allow such a thing to happen.
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime
    [mailto:owner-crime@/var/spool/majordomo/lists/crime]On Behalf Of
    Crispin Cowan
    Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:32 PM
    To: webb1973
    Cc: Toby Kohlenberg; webb1973; crime@private
    Subject: Re: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    
    webb1973 wrote:
    
    >Mr. Kohlenberg, you seem to have a strong resentment of government's role
    in
    >your life. That's a joke, dude.
    >
    Toby is not alone.
    
    > Just kidding. But seriously, do you really
    >believe asking questions is a precursor to dark happenings down the road?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.
    
    > Do
    >you really believe that there's some hidden agenda or plot to enslave
    >Americans?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.  The Government constantly seeks to expand its powers.
    The purpose of the Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights, is
    to limit this expansion.  It is traditional for the Government to use
    the threat of war as an excuse to expand its powers, because the foreign
    threat makes the public more pliable.
    
    > That our government is becoming an evil empire?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.  Especially the current administration.
    
    > Come on, dude!
    >Are we wrong to want to be safe from terrorists?
    >
    No, but the "safety" measures the Government is proposong have very weak
    security value, and very strong intrusions into civil liberties. IMHO,
    the current administration is a far greater threat than terrorism is.
    
    > And what's this "lashing
    >out" business? We have always had law enforcement that we can count on to
    >have good judgment.
    >
    You have GOT to be kidding. Police abuse of powers have been occurring
    for decades (at least) in America. Such abuse tends to occur much more
    when public oversight is limited. Secret military tribunals and secret
    detention of people without access to council are just invitations to
    abuse. Which is why such actions are defined by the Constitution AS
    abuse. The Government is way, WAY over the line of what is called for in
    the present situation.
    
    > They do their jobs every day, without anyone noticing,
    >and they make good decisions. We only hear about the bad instances, and not
    >enough about the good.
    >
    I believe that most law officers are good and well-intentioned people.
    But I am not willing to write the police department a blank check of "do
    whatever you want, never mind that pesky due process stuff."  I have not
    heard any of the fine officers on this mailing list advocate such
    action, but I HAVE heard John Ashcroft and assorted Administration and
    Congressional persons advocate (effectively) the abandonment of due process.
    
    >We also have constitutional
    >safeguards in place that won't allow the kind of dark future you seem to
    >fear.
    >
    Are you paying any attention at all?  Those Constitutional safeguards
    have ALREADY been violated.
    
    >These thing can't be unilaterally changed in our Constitution.
    >
    But they can and have been unilaterally ignored.
    
    Crispin
    
    --
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com
    Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
    Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
    



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