RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland

From: BAIRD Dion E * DAS DOIT (Dion.E.Baird@private)
Date: Thu Nov 22 2001 - 19:02:36 PST

  • Next message: webb1973: "RE: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland"

      Crispin speaks the truth in and I like the manner he speaks it in.  He
    puts is bluntly, but not rude.  I have in my 12 years in the 'service of my
    country' seen a great many things that would lead me to believe that most
    people don't have a clue as to what the heck goes on.  Your 'so called'
    civil liberties are not even close to what they used to be, and if you think
    they are, start reading and investigating.  
      Ever heard of the Rico statutes?  The Rico statutes say if you are even
    SUSPECTED, of one of several crimes (usually drug related), you can have
    your house, your car, your whole life seized right out from under you, and
    sold even before you are found guilty.  What's your recourse if found
    innocent?  You can't even sue the government unless they say you can!
      How about Bosnia?  Did you know that we were under foreign command there
    (allied or not it was foreign), and that is SPECIFICALLY covered in the
    constitution as treason?  What happened to the few who refused to wear the
    beret and the patch for the UN?  They were tried in courts-martial and none
    of this made the press again.
      The public needs to wake up and open their eyes.  Our government has taken
    far more power than was ever supposed to be given it.  Why?  Because we the
    American people thought we needed the good old Federal Govt. to protect us.
    All I can say my friend is that there are things far worse than death.
      I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving.  Thanks for listening.
    
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@private] 
    Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 5:32 PM
    To: webb1973
    Cc: Toby Kohlenberg; webb1973; crime@private
    Subject: Re: CRIME Kudos to Acting Police Chief Andrew Kirkland
    
    webb1973 wrote:
    
    >Mr. Kohlenberg, you seem to have a strong resentment of government's role
    in
    >your life. That's a joke, dude.
    >
    Toby is not alone.
    
    > Just kidding. But seriously, do you really
    >believe asking questions is a precursor to dark happenings down the road?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.
    
    > Do
    >you really believe that there's some hidden agenda or plot to enslave
    >Americans?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.  The Government constantly seeks to expand its powers. 
    The purpose of the Constitution, and especially the Bill of Rights, is 
    to limit this expansion.  It is traditional for the Government to use 
    the threat of war as an excuse to expand its powers, because the foreign 
    threat makes the public more pliable.
    
    > That our government is becoming an evil empire?
    >
    Yes, absolutely.  Especially the current administration.
    
    > Come on, dude!
    >Are we wrong to want to be safe from terrorists?
    >
    No, but the "safety" measures the Government is proposong have very weak 
    security value, and very strong intrusions into civil liberties. IMHO, 
    the current administration is a far greater threat than terrorism is.
    
    > And what's this "lashing
    >out" business? We have always had law enforcement that we can count on to
    >have good judgment.
    >
    You have GOT to be kidding. Police abuse of powers have been occurring 
    for decades (at least) in America. Such abuse tends to occur much more 
    when public oversight is limited. Secret military tribunals and secret 
    detention of people without access to council are just invitations to 
    abuse. Which is why such actions are defined by the Constitution AS 
    abuse. The Government is way, WAY over the line of what is called for in 
    the present situation.
    
    > They do their jobs every day, without anyone noticing,
    >and they make good decisions. We only hear about the bad instances, and not
    >enough about the good.
    >
    I believe that most law officers are good and well-intentioned people. 
    But I am not willing to write the police department a blank check of "do 
    whatever you want, never mind that pesky due process stuff."  I have not 
    heard any of the fine officers on this mailing list advocate such 
    action, but I HAVE heard John Ashcroft and assorted Administration and 
    Congressional persons advocate (effectively) the abandonment of due process.
    
    >We also have constitutional
    >safeguards in place that won't allow the kind of dark future you seem to
    >fear. 
    >
    Are you paying any attention at all?  Those Constitutional safeguards 
    have ALREADY been violated.
    
    >These thing can't be unilaterally changed in our Constitution.
    >
    But they can and have been unilaterally ignored.
    
    Crispin
    
    -- 
    Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
    Chief Scientist, WireX Communications, Inc. http://wirex.com
    Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
    Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html
    



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