CRIME Reply to Justifications discussion

From: Steve Kirby (Kirbys@private)
Date: Wed Aug 14 2002 - 12:06:04 PDT

  • Next message: Kuo, Jimmy: "RE: CRIME Security Justification"

    Thanks for the info ... let me give you a summary of waht I say and what I
    am getting.
    
    I think Shaun hit the nail on the head, and is reinforced by the infosec mag
    and cio articules I list below.  How severe is the threat?
    
    From the replies then I am looking at a base model firewall and an
    anti-virus package for the company.  These we have.  And both have been
    effective ... the first for policing users going to inappropirate sites, and
    the second for the e-mail virus blitz from last year.  We had been hit with
    a virus about 7 years ago, but since then we have been running AV stuff and
    it has been good.
    What I am finding thought is that beyond some simple procudures (current
    firewall and anti-virus software) the threat level that I am seeing in
    approaching 0.  This makes security a non-issue.  And this is for a rather
    large company in the Northwest.  
    Looking at a house analogy ... spend some money on locks.. and forget it.
    If you are a bank or live in a 'bad section of town' (e.g. government site,
    defense contractor) then it might be worth the money, but otherwise it is a
    waste.
    
    Has anyone on the list had to do an ROI for another company?  I am curious
    what kinds of numbers youget because the number I work don't come close to
    much of anything (see below).
    
    The one factor that is listed that I can't reconcile is the use of our
    machines to attack someone else ... all I can expect is that is a site
    detects such an attack then they notify us and we will act.
    
    So going into more detail.
    
    Note on downtime ... unless the systems are down for 3+ days then the REAL
    impact to the company is probably 0.  Phones and hand-written back-up can
    keep the wheels turning for a time.
    
    * Honeypot - This justifies at least some level of firewall, but do I need
    more?
    * Cert.org info - no level of granularity on the stats.
    * Costs - So far we have been up for 10 years on the internet.  We have had
    0 hours of downtime from intusions since then.  What is gained from spending
    an additional $100K on security?
    * Downtime ... if I have 1 day downtime/ 10year of uptime.  And the cost of
    that downtime is $100K per day ... then It is better for me to take the
    $100K hit than to spend $10K per year on security.
    * Risk .. what is the worst possibel scenario?  I suppose a malicios hacker
    could get into the networks and corrupt data without our detection.  If so
    then I lose a days worth of work and go back to back-ups ... this happens
    occasionally from normal user mistakes.  This is the Annul Los * Expense
    Figures
    <http://www.cio.com/archive/021502/security.html>
    <http://www.cio.com/archive/021502/security_sidebar.html>
    There is additional info in 
    http://www.infosecuritymag.com/images/Security.pdf
    This has some good info, but based on the metric still says no to security.
    Threat x % Success x Cost = $$$
    1.day x .0003 x 100000 = $300/day = $10K yr
    Another dollar and sense article goes to a little more detail, but the same
    basics:
    http://online.securityfocus.com/infocus/1608
    Where the numbers are Exposure (EV) x Asset (AV)
    
    Steve
    



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