Re: Recent Attacks

From: Amergin (amerginat_private)
Date: Sun Feb 20 2000 - 01:52:59 PST

  • Next message: Hans W. Rosen: "snooping"

    Thank god, a voice of reason. It's shocking how blind the rightous of 
    anything can be.
    
    All these analogies and not one approximates what the Net actually is or  
    appropiate usage, we, as a community, are defining it now.
    
    
    -A
    
    
    On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, Ryan Russell wrote:
    
    > 
    > 
    > On Fri, 18 Feb 2000, David LeBlanc wrote:
    > > It is all a matter of usage.  If I use a hammer to build a building, I get
    > > paid.  If I use it to smash windshields, I get thrown in jail.  There isn't
    > > any law against checking security of your own systems.  There is a law
    > > against breaking into other people's systems.  At least ISS made a good
    > > faith effort to keep the Scanner's licensing such that it at least slowed
    > > the crackers down for a while before they could use it.  That's more than I
    > > can say for several other auditing tool vendors.
    > 
    > Then you think Mixter doesn't deserve punishment, or he does and ISS
    > doesn't because IS is a "good" tool?  A few other folks say Mixter
    > deserves ...well, something.. they're not specific.  We don't even know
    > for sure his stuff was used.  We also don't know the attacker didn't use
    > IS to break into the zombie systems.  I've used IS to break into other
    > people's systems.  It works real well.
    > 
    > > 
    > > This really has nothing to do that I can see with the current discussion.
    > 
    > If you advocate harsh penalties for malicious "hackers", and then you
    > happen to get classified as one due to some idiotic legal wording, where
    > does that leave you?  My example is an attempt to personalize the
    > situation for the readers of this list.
    > 
    > > 
    > > >How about releasing the "firewall" toolkit full of holes?  
    > > 
    > > I have no idea what you're talking about.  fwtk?  ISS' 'firewall scanner'
    > > stuff?
    > 
    > That's a poke at marcus.
    > 
    > > 
    > > >$100M
    > > >each?
    > > 
    > > I hope you're joking.  If so, you should have put <g> liberally.
    > > 
    > 
    > It should be obvious that I wouldn't seriously advocate an action against
    > people who release tools of any sort, buggy or otherwise.  
    > 
    > However, say it was discovered that the attackers were using ISS's
    > Internet Scanner.  Let's say the feds get away with nailing him with 1.2B
    > or more in damages.  Wouldn't that leave a nice path open for suits
    > against Mixter and ISS?  Wouldn't 10% of the damages (or a little less) be
    > a reasonable amount to nail them with?  Especially ISS who actually has
    > the money?
    > 
    > Be careful about advocating huge amounts of damages, especially if you
    > work in the security industry.  There are a lot of scary laws up for vote
    > right now, and not a lot of sympathy for anyone who wants to use the title
    > "hacker" for anything.
    > 
    > 					Ryan
    > 
    > 
    



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