Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation

From: Greg Barnes (gregat_private)
Date: Mon Dec 30 2002 - 11:06:35 PST

  • Next message: Greg Barnes: "Re: RPAT - Realtime Proxy Abuse Triangulation"

    Hi Jay,
    
    Comments inline...
    
    Saturday, December 28, 2002, 12:51:09 AM, you wrote:
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    JDD> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Stephen P. Berry wrote: 
    
    >> Funny that everyone seems to be hung up on the question of whether or
    >> not reciprocal scans are -legal-.  Howzabout this one:  Even if scanning
    >> spam relays is -legal-, is it ethical? 
    
    JDD>         Such a practice strikes me as teleologically ethical[1].  A system
    
    Technologically Ethical?  Is that like 'technically
    honest' but not honest by any other definition?
    
    JDD> is being abused and we recipient systems are paying the canonical price
    JDD> for it.  And since we bear the cost of someone else's irresponsibility, we
    JDD> have both the right and the responsibility to pick up the slack created by
    JDD> the other party so that other systems do not receive the same net.abuse
    JDD> ours have.
    
    This would be true if you represented an extension of
    law enforcement.
    
    JDD>         The only thing that would color such a practice as even remotely
    JDD> unethical would be later utilization of such findings for the purpose of
    JDD> further spamming or other nefarious conduct.
    
    Who defines nefarious?  The rule of law defines it.
    And there are agencies established for the purpose
    of enforcing the law.  I can't believe this is even
    a question here...
    
    JDD>         As a rule, when my systems are spammed via an open relay, I do
    JDD> indeed perform open relay tests on the offending system to confirm that
    JDD> the relayed spam is genuine or trivially spoofed[2].  With those findings,
    
    So how does one justify any scanning beyond that
    which is required to determine the source
    of a problem in the course of one's day to day duties,
    and furthermore with the end goal of notifying the
    cognizant authority of the offense?
    
    JDD> I file my reports with the cognizant admins and/or upstream providers so
    JDD> that an end may be put to that nonsense.
    
    All well and good, but again - to what end, the additional scanning?
    
    JDD> - -Jay
    
    JDD> 1.  I don't subscribe to deontological ethics.  Even when I was a lad I
    JDD>     never regarded "because I said so" as a valid rationale for anything.
    JDD> 2.  Old Sun Microsystems SMI 8.6 MTAs will accept any HELO statement and
    JDD>     not log the IP, which caused all manner of spammer mischief.
    
    JDD>    (    (                                                         _______
    JDD>    ))   ))   .-"There's always time for a good cup of coffee."-.   >====<--.
    JDD>  C|~~|C|~~| (>------ Jay D. Dyson - jdysonat_private ------<) |    = |-'
    JDD>   `--' `--'  `How about a 10-day waiting period on YOUR rights?'  `------'
    
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    -
    
    Regards,
    
    Greg
    
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